The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

[PacificDogwod]

The 'Wall' where the hanged people, well, hang, is part of Harvard University apparently. The location was very controversial as Harvard of course is seen as a place of learning and socially responsible liberal thinking.

[InigoTaran]

Just read this in the Guardian's comments section, as they are reviewing it weekly, thought pp might find it interesting:

Joseph Fiennes has just been talking about The Handmaid's Tale on Front Row.

He was asked did he think the series was going to be quite so big; he said no, not this big, luck is always involved, but the success is hugely due to Hulu making such a great job of adapting such a powerful book. He is glad the 10 episodes aren't available all at once; each episode gives the viewer so much to absorb and think about that the week in between is of great value.

There isn't much about Fred in the book, which is told from Offred's perspective, but the show has room to build upon characters and small details. Fred is a believer, he believes Gilead will reset the moral compass of a failed US, he is a fanatic, and power makes him feel untouchable. But he is also human; he wants to take care of Offred, the woman who will bear his child, and he feels guilt at the suicide of Offred's predecessor.

The "ceremony", of course, is rape, and was by necessity tricky to film; here Fiennes praises the writing and the director of the first three episodes. He says the show gets the horror of Gilead across without being gratuitous. Gilead is a patriarchy; women have lost their rights, even over their own bodies. They can't work, drive, or even read. Fertile women are there to perpetuate a state in which they have no say but are vital to its longevity.

Fiennes doesn't think the show has benefitted from the timing of Trumpland; there have always been powerful theocracies in which women are subservient. The book and the show are timeless. The Handmaid's Tale is a cautionary tale. Repression creeps up when you aren't paying attention.

What of the second season, when the book has been exhausted? Fiennes says the ability of the show to dwell on small mentions of, say, the colonies, will give lots of scope for a deeper exploration of the backstories of characters and how Gilead came about. He is looking forward to not knowing what will happen in season 2.

[IndominusRex]

Ooh I wasn't sure about season 2 at first but now in quite excited. I think most of the additions/changes they've made have been excellent. I can't stop thinking about episode 3 and the FGM scene. As an aside did the 'gender traitor' 'unnatural desires' rhetoric and subsequent mutilation make anyone else think of trans children?

[MyGastIsFlabbered]

If Joseph Fiennes is excited about series 2 does that mean the ending won't be true to the book? (Trying desperately to avoid spoilers here)

[Batteriesallgone]

Yup certainly did Rex

[CruCru]

The book was so open ended, I think it would be okay for the directors / producers to do their own version of it.

[noblegiraffe]

The only thing about Gilead that doesn't seem plausible is that the regime says it is based upon scripture.

But the use of handmaids to have children for more important but infertile people is lifted entirely out of scripture. The bits of the Bible that have been quoted in the series are accurate.

[Abra1d]

The thing that scares me most is the women who are complicit in the abuse of other women, punishing them when they rebel.

[Abra1d]

I sometimes think the church was right to resist the translation of the Bible into vernacular languages. It is far too scary for a lot of idiots to be allowed easy access to it.

[PacificDogwod]

What scrambles my brain a bit (apart from the obvious!) is that while it is set in the future it all seems a bit backward, you know, in an Amish kind of way . May just be the 'modest' dresses and head wear.

How would a state like Gilead support itself? What would its economy be based on? Would other countries continue trading with it? I know the supermarket was relatively speaking quite sparse but there are cars/tanks so presumably oil? And there must still be butchers, bakers and candlestick makers, you know, 'normal' professions and jobs?? Are they all done by men now?
It is quite a limited 'universe' IMO, entirely centred on procreation and controlling (dwindling) fertility.

[PacificDogwod]

Even accepting that the bible is god's word, it was written down by human men. Decades and sometimes centuries after the events described and, naturally, heavily influenced by the prevailing cultural mores.
I truly don't get how even the most ardent believer thinks it is right to take the bible word for word in a literal manner

[QueenieGoldstein]

Trade deals do come up in the book and the Commander mentioned it in the last episode too.

[Mrsmartell08]

NC has today passed legislation that states that a woman cannot legally.chnage her mind once the sex act has begun.
Scary times.

[comedaygoday]

I don't think Gilead is biblically correct even if a warped interpretation of the bible is used to.justify it. Rachel is only one of the infertile women in.the bible. She does use a surrogate handmaiden and she tries fertility drugs (mandrakes ) but this is showing a lack of faith. It is only when she puts faith in God, that she is able to conceive herself. In contrast, Hannah is able to conceive Samuel after she turns to God and both Elizabeth and Sarah are rewarded for their faith with very late pregnancies.

Rather than use handmaiden the genuine biblical approach is to see it a Gods Will and never lose hope.(I am not suggesting this is what people struggling with infertility should actually

[Batteriesallgone]

What's NC Mrs?

[Mrsmartell08]

North Carolina

[Batteriesallgone]

But Bilhah does have sons that Rachel names, comedy. So using a handmaid 'works' in the bible.

[Jijhebtseksmetezels]

I think a second series will be brilliant even though I'm only at episode 4. It'll be good to go into the politics if it, the characters and how they coped with the regime change.

[noblegiraffe]

The whole revolting story in the Bible goes:

Jacob Agrees to Work in Order to Marry Rachel
15 Later, Laban asked Jacob, “Should you serve me for free, just because you’re my nephew?[f] Let’s talk about what your wages should be.”

16 Now Laban happened to have two daughters. The older one was named Leah and the younger was named Rachel. 17 Leah looked rather plain,[g] but Rachel was lovely in form and appearance. 18 Jacob loved Rachel, so he made this offer to Laban: “I’ll serve you for seven years for Rachel, your younger daughter.”

19 “It’s better that I give her to you than to another man,” Laban replied, “so stay with me.” 20 Jacob served seven years for Rachel, but it seemed like only a few days because of his love for her.

21 Eventually, Jacob told Laban, “Bring me my wife, now that my time of service[h] has been completed, so I can go be with her.” 22 So Laban gathered all the men who lived in that place and held a wedding festival.

Laban Deceives Jacob
23 That night Laban took his daughter Leah and brought her to Jacob.[i] He had marital relations with her. 24 Laban also gave his servant woman Zilpah to Leah to be her maidservant. 25 The next morning, Jacob[j] realized that it was Leah! “What have you done to me?” he demanded of Laban. “Didn’t I serve you for seven years in order to marry Rachel? Why did you deceive me?”

26 But Laban responded, “It’s not the practice of our place to give the younger one in marriage[k] before the firstborn. 27 Fulfill the week for this daughter,[l] then we’ll give you the other one in exchange for serving me another seven years.”

28 So Jacob completed another seven years’ work, and then Laban[m] gave him his daughter Rachel to be his wife. 29 Laban also gave his woman servant Bilhah to his daughter Rachel to be her maidservant. 30 Jacob[n] also married Rachel, since he loved her. He served Laban another full seven years’ work for Rachel.

Leah’s Children
31 Later, the Lord noticed that Leah was being neglected,[o] so he made her fertile, while Rachel remained childless. 32 Leah conceived, bore a son, and named him Reuben,[p] because she was saying, “The Lord had looked on my torture, so now my husband will love me.”

33 Later, she conceived again, bore a son, and declared, “Because the Lord heard that I’m neglected, he gave me this one, too.” So she named him Simeon.[q]

34 Later, she conceived again and said, “This time my husband will become attached to me, now that I’ve borne him three sons.” So he named him Levi.[r]

35 Then she conceived yet again, bore a son, and said, “This time I’ll praise the Lord.” So she named him Judah.[s]

Then she stopped bearing children.

30 Rachel noticed that she was not bearing children for Jacob, so because she envied her sister Leah, she told Jacob, “If you don’t give me sons, I’m going to die!”

2 That made Jacob angry with Rachel, so he asked her, “Can I take God’s place, who has not allowed you to conceive?”[a]

3 Rachel[b] responded, “Here’s my handmaid Bilhah. Go have sex with her. She can bear children[c] on my knees so I can have children through her.”

4 So Rachel[d] gave Jacob[e] her woman servant Bilhah to be his wife, and Jacob had sex with her. 5 Bilhah conceived and bore a son for Jacob. 6 Then Rachel said, “God has vindicated me! He has heard my voice and has given me a son.” Therefore, she named him Dan.[f]

7 Rachel’s servant conceived again and bore a second son for Jacob, 8 so Rachel said, “I’ve been through a mighty struggle with my sister and won.” She named him Naphtali.[g]

9 When Leah saw that she had stopped bearing children, she took her woman servant Zilpah and gave her to Jacob as a wife. 10 Leah’s servant Zilpah bore a son to Jacob, 11 and Leah exclaimed, “How fortunate!” So she named him Gad.[h]

12 Later, Leah’s servant Zilpah bore a second son for Jacob. 13 She said, “How happy I am, because women will call me happy!” So she named him Asher.[i]

Jacob and the Mandrakes
14 Some time later, during the wheat harvest season, Reuben went out and found some mandrakes[j] in the field and brought them back for his mother Leah. Then Rachel[k] told Leah, “Please give me your son’s mandrakes.”

15 In response, Leah asked her, “Wasn’t it enough that you’ve taken away my husband? Now you also want to take my son’s mandrakes!”

But Rachel replied, “Very well, let’s let Jacob sleep with you tonight in exchange for your son’s mandrakes.”

16 When Jacob came in from the field that evening, Leah went to meet him and told him, “You’re having sex with me tonight. I traded my son’s mandrakes for you!” So he slept with her that night.

17 God heard what Leah had said, so she conceived and bore a fifth son for Jacob. 18 Then Leah said, “God has paid me for giving my servant to my husband as his wife.” So she named him Issachar.[l]

19 Later, Leah conceived again and bore a sixth son for Jacob. 20 Then Leah said, “God has given me a good gift. This time my husband will exalt me, because I’ve borne him six sons.” So she named him Zebulun.[m]

21 After that, Leah conceived, bore a daughter, and named her Dinah.

Rachel’s Son Joseph is Born
22 Then God remembered Rachel. He listened to her and opened her womb, 23 so she conceived, bore a son, and remarked, “God has removed my shame.” 24 Because she had been asking, “May God give me another son,” she named him Joseph.[n]

[comedaygoday]

It works, but I think Gilead has chosen that as the biblical.solution because it is what suits the men with power and another biblical interpretation is also possible. I also think the wives are on shaky ground. It would be possible for commanders in.the future to see their wives infertility as proof of the wufe's lack of faith or godliness and either decide the marriage was void or that her sin made divorce permissible.Basically I think the bible is an excuse rather than the real motivation

[Jijhebtseksmetezels]

So basically it's divide and conquer. The sisters are fighting over who gets the man's love and approval by being either fertile or pretty.

The handmaids are offered up like pieces of meat, no say whatsoever.

The man is sitting pretty with multiple shags and women trying to please him.

The Bible is a piece of fucked up sexist shit. Seriously why does anyone bother with it?

[PacificDogwod]

Gosh, that is a rather distasteful and torrid story, isn't it, noblegiraffe?
Thank you for taking the time to write it down.

NC has today passed legislation that states that a woman cannot legally.chnage her mind once the sex act has begun.
Scary times.
MrsMarten, indeed

[PacificDogwod]

Jijheb has summed it up beautifully

[Jijhebtseksmetezels]

Thanks Pacific. Many years of MN training have helped me to know a patriarchal turd when I see one

[Batteriesallgone]

That is really scary Mrs