The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

Yes me too Mrskwazii

There is one thing that they haven't really mentioned much in the the series yet and that is the subject of "the shredders". I keep wondering if they will focus on this subject. It was the thing that haunted me most when I read the book, that they would kill any child after birth that was found with disabilities or malformations. Or is it too unpalatable for TV?

I've been thinking a lot about 'what would I do in this situation?' The reality is I would probably do nothing, because I have, even now, a sort of inherent faith in the system being flawed but fair and that 'things won't get that bad'. I would trust (wrongly in handmaids world)that it would all work out in the end. I wonder if that's how people in Aleppo or other places affected by war/regime change felt at the beginning.
I protest but I don't actually do much more than that because-what can I do? (I'm thinking of when I went on the Stop the war march re Iraq as an example.I was outraged by that situation and went on the march etc-but after that felt there was little that I as a person could do).Were a Gilead situation to begin occurring I think a lot of people would vocally object but then accept the fact that there isn't much else they can do-(especially when others more active began to be killed as then fear would set in) as that's what seems to happen with lots of situations now (if parallels can be drawn).

I protest but I don't actually do much more than that because-what can I do

And standing up for yourself and rights in certain situations can be very dangerous.

Even standing up for yourself and trying to make changes in this country can lead to repercussions. Especially online repercussions.

Far far worse in other countries.

Thanks AGnu, that's exactly what I meant... I wasn't trying to be sexist or say that women like May shouldn't act in typically-male ways, just that a lot of hierarchies, including politics, value those male tendencies more than female ones when it comes to achieving 'success'.

'Re: May, I think the issue is more that women who display more stereotypically feminine attributes don't tend to get very far in politics. Politicians, regardless of their sex, tend to be conditioned to behave in the same way & when you have a group of people who all expect everyone else to behave the same way it must be incredibly difficult to change the culture. The gentler, more "feminine" people don't tend to get the promotions/nominations because they don't fit with the expected image of a "capable politician". It's an interesting question - whether politics is the way it is because of the people involved, or whether being in charge of running the country would harden people. I know it's not a job I could do - I'd find it impossible to balance wanting to help everyone with finding enough money to do it. I doubt I'd last a week as PM.'

Oh, MrsKwazii, that hadn't occurred to me. How vile.

Why were people getting abortions and vasectomies at all? Surely there woukd have been great rewards for retaining your fertility.

Apart from the reasons given upthread, there's also the fact that some kind of contamination has not only reduced the likelihood of conceiving, but also of giving birth to a 'normal' baby - I'm getting confused now between what's in the book and what's in the series, but in one or the other we hear about 'Unbabies' who are badly deformed, taken away and no-one knows what happens to them (and presumably the gross deformities were happening pre-Gilead). I guess if you thought your chances of carrying to term were low, and of the baby being viable were even lower, you might not want to put yourself through it.

The whole 'we've got a woman PM so it proves we have a gender equal society' pisses me off no end. Yes, a few women (most of them privileged in one way or another) make it to the top, but that doesn't mean equality has been won. Paul Robeson nailed this in his testimony to the McCarthy tribunal when he said that one black man (him) attaining wealth and celebrity didn't cancel out the hundreds of thousands of black people living in poverty with no opportunities because of systematic discrimination.

Oh, I too assumed she was functionally mute, not actually mutilated!

To be fair to everybody who does not get discrimination and/or privilege, it took me well in to my middle-age to begin to understand my privilege. Most people will assume that their experience is 'normal' or some kind of standard - well or at least I did .

The indoctrination that my DSs are getting at school (mainly from their peers) about feminists = lesbians = man haterz is quite shocking and actually rather hard to counteract without ranting getting annoyed....

I don't think she was mutlilated - when he was introduced to people on the bus, they said, of her, "she hasn't spoken since we got her out" - if they had cut her tongue out, wouldn't they have said something like "She can't talk - they cut out her tongue"?

^ YY

Sophie, the bit I took issue with was when you wrote "but if you watch her she's acting like a man for the rest of them", implying it was an act for the benefit of (?male) colleagues, and not her natural self; it is sexist to question the authenticity of a woman's presentation based on nothing more than a belief that she is deviating from, presumably, more stereotypically feminine behaviour.

I don't disagree that politics tends to favour certain attributes or personality types, and that disadvantages many people.

I was under the impression that Margaret Thatcher was advised to change her style to fit in - including changing the way she spoke. That's what I've seen in documentaries on her.

I think that side of her that we see in the commons especially IS a bit of act though - and as the previous poster said, Maggie was advised to 'fit in' - and given how masculine the whole Westminster vibe is, I'm pretty sure that throughout her political education learning the way things work, she learnt too that speaking loudly and in a lower tone is more likely to get you heard amongst men... You learn to fit in because you need to if you want to succeed there. I don't think it's sexist to suspect that that's how it works for a lot of women in a very masculine environment.

I wonder how many people are leaving Turkey?
It's been a year since the failed coup and there's been a massive crackdown on people. 150,000 people have been sacked from State institutions. 50,000 people have been arrested.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40616488

Women's rights seem to be under attack as well.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-31709887

At what point do you leave?

Also, where do you go? Luke and June waited for visas that they were then told were useless anyway, but how many of us would still try to work within a system rather than just running for it? I probably would. It's so ingrained in us to do things right, that you'd have to be really desperate to do something so drastic by which time he situation is probably untenable anyway and it might be too late...

It's like boiling a frog isn't it, things get gradually worse rather than going to pot all at once. With hindsight it's easy to see that you should have got out, but when you're in that situation it's less clear.

Having read the book as well as watching the series (I cheated and found all the episodes), I actually preferred the tv series with all the padding out. I usually always prefer the book to the tv/film version too.

I'm hoping there's a second series to come.

I might have misunderstood but I thought the visas they had arranged were fake or forged. As were the passports they were intending to use.

So they were still using their initiative and going outside of the system, but in a way that allowed them to get Hannah out.

Delurking as I've finally caught up with all the episodes. Thank you for the insightful commentary!

There's so much to say about this programme but just to touch on the music choices - I've been listening to that Cigarettes After Sex song a lot too and find it very interesting how the lyrics echo Luke's earlier sentiment - 'nothing's gonna hurt you baby, as long as you're with me you'll be just fine.' I feel like nothing in this show is accidental so that was quite an ironic choice for me.

No women in the job centre....

Is this Luke's story tonight?

Edit: Nick's story

I'm guessing they're heading to Jezebels

Oh my god. This has me in tears. Just another level of abuse. No would you like to do something different? Just shave your legs for me, put on makeup for me, wear this dress for me. No asking, just entitled male assuming that his 'property' will play the whore for him.

I bet he thinks he's being really nice to her.

The way Nick was recruited seems very similar to the way extremists are recruited.

Really bad timing for a Venus razor ad in the advert break

I always imagined the club being in the countryside from the book, not industrial down town. Don't know why!

Fuck, I knew he was taking her out to a sex party! ( haven't read the book, but the music was so ominous....)