The Handmaid's Tale Vol 2

[PacificDogwod]

I go to work and this is what happens: the previous thread fills up when I have pertinent things to say!

Hope nobody minds, I've taken the opportunity to start a new one before the Offspring demand food and the likes...

One of the masterful strikes of strategic genius of the new regime is the division and envy between everybody and everybody: men vs women, women in different roles vs other women, high ranking vs low ranking.
No solidarity is allowed - even the partnered Handmaids were half companion and have guard. Never knowing who might be an Eye and who to trust must be soul destroying.

I think Serena is quite a tragic figure - in the book and in the TV series. She must feel so betrayed by the ideals she fought for and that she is now kind of forced to uphold because otherwise what would her life be?? Admitting that she supporting a world view that while giving her some kind of social status by dint of her husband's role, considers her without value as she cannot have children would render everything she stands for invalid, and herself by extension.

The author who wrote a book about women being able to electrocute men by touch thereby causing a power change over (sorry, I cannot remember either name ) was talking on Radio Scotland today. She said the idea for her book came from when she wondered why so many mechanisms in society seem to go back to the fact that 'more men can throw a woman across a room than the other way around'. It's a depressing thought that physical strength underpins so much.

Yep, normally discrepancies between a book and TV series bother me to the extent that I can't enjoy it but with this version it seems that, at times, they're improving it. Also it's obviously got the nod of the author herself.

I'm waiting on something to happen that I remember from the book, but it's so long since I read it that I'm doubting myself, only four episodes to go so I'll know soon enough.

I do agree with other posters about the differences between the book and the series but I suppose it has to reflect the times now and not when it was written.

I've never seen a film based on it so I'll try to find it and watch it.

How/why did the Ambassador's aide have June and Luke's details?

The scene with serena joy and the commander having sex was a flashback. They were reciting scripture to each other (hot!) and said 'may this union be fruitful'. The scene was to show how they used to have a strong and close relationship and hoped for children and to highlight the coldness and distance they have now.

There was a second sex scene between them that was present though, because Serena had longed to be intimate with him again.

I didn't really like this week (just watched it on catch up)

It just didn't make any sense! Why lie about the treatment of the Handmaids if you are planning to trade them? The Mexicans would have to keep up the rape and the discipline once they were handed over.

Even little things like the damaged Handmaids were removed right before the meal but then magically there were no empty seats. That's just lazy production surely.

Also can't help feeling that the interpretation of sex - the Commander saying to his wife that they shouldn't, presumably because she's not fertile - is too scientific. The Bible is chock full of unlikely conceptions, they would surely keep having sex in the hope of a miracle. Deciding that science has told you children won't happen doesn't sound like true faith to me.

I'm guessing the Ambassadors aide is a secret Eye? She'd be a fool to write anything down.

I think they're going to hand over some of the children? Fertility as a commodity.

There were empty seats...

Oh must have missed the empty seats at the Handmaid Table. That will have looked bad to the Ambassador I would have thought.

I suppose asking for children would be more palatable to the Mexican (our modern) morality than asking for fertile women as then it's less direct. But you'd be at risk of being given a load of boys if you didn't specify, and if you're willing to specify why not go the whole hog and ask for fertile women to resettle.

Also doesn't it clash a bit with the book where Moira is sterilised and sent to Jezebels, if fertility was not just a moral imperative but a commodity surely those women wouldn't be sterilised, any children would be kept for trade as the offspring of damaged goods. Fair enough to update the book etc but a downright clash in ideals, I don't know it's starting to veer away a bit too wildly for me now. And I've loved the updates up to this point.

I don't think they would hand over the children as they are far too precious to trade I think in the books if a handmaid had a healthy baby they would transfer her to another family. I imagine a % of these would be traded.
That was heartbreaking to see the children come in and the handmaids looking to see if they were their children having to guess as they hadn't seen them since weaning.
The mexican aide I don't think is an eye why would he be? He lives in a different country and has no connection to gillead. It is safe to say that other countries are suspicious of whats going on. So perhaps some escapees have got the message out and there are people trying to save the handmaids

If you were Offred you might well wonder if the Mexican aide was a trap. Writing the note is a desperate hope but it is still risky.

Re the aide having June and Luke's details, I wondered how he knew who she was. Once he had her name, you can easily imagine there being a database made by people outside the regime which it would only take a moment to search. So either at some point on the visit, someone must have told him, or else someone is sending information about the handmaids' identities out of the country.

The children are being raised by the rich families - that's the point of the handmaids. They won't become handmaids themselves. They are upper class children and will become wives; with future handmaids themselves if necessary

Where will they get more handmaids from or will they come from the econowives?

Anyone who flinches at "girls" used for grown women, notice that the handmaids were introduced as "girls" at the gala?

Yes, I noticed 'girls'.

I didn't think they were trading children, as it doesn't really have a helpful purpose... trading fertile Handmaids would though.

But what would they trade them for?

The whole 'honouring the handmaids for making the choice to procreate for the common good' line is galling when they spend their lives being seen as sluts and whores.

I haven't read the book in years but I think when I read it I thought they were seen as sluts because they were handmaids and allowed the commanders to sleep with them. Now it looks like they are handmaids because they were sluts before Gilead, which is why they are despised. I'm not sure if I read the book badly, or whether the programme is making things more clear.

I thought that the handmaid role kind of purified the women so they were no longer seen as sluts

Didn't the wives refer to them as sluts when they got together to deliver the baby? They were appallingly rude about them at least.

So if they are trading handmaids, why the big effort to lie about them being happy etc? It doesn't make sense does it? Am I being dense?

Surely once the Mexicans get them they'd find out the truth, I mean

I GUESS they need to convince the Mexicans that they are happy in order for them to agree to trade them. It doesn't matter what happens after.

That's why this new narrative tangent isn't helpful (in my view). Gilead is much more closed in the book and, although the outside world knows about it, subject to less scrutiny within the narrative.

The Mexicans would likely be into the whole rape for procreation idea if the point of the trade is to obtain fertile woman. They are hardly going to buy them and then say oh you are free to have children or not, up to you

The book was so meticulously thought through and believable. This episode just didn't seem to have enough explanation to it.

I figured the guy was an Eye because it's easier for someone in the regime to know who June was married to than someone outside to work it out. In dictatorship regimes very often visiting officials have spies in their delegation whether they are aware of it or not. Someone as threatening to Gilead as a female Ambassador would be bound to be trailed by an Eye. If they get her to write something down they've got something easy to prosecute her with that doesn't rely on the Eye blowing his cover. I hope he's not actually an outside guy helping people get out. How convenient, how TV!

No I thought that too Batteriesallgone, if Mexico are taking on handmaids then the set up in Mexico needs to be the same too doesn't it?

Though we don't know how it was sold to the ambassador, do we?

The ambassador didn't seem too concerned by what Offred had to say though - she was bothered but it seemed like she was opting for the end justifies the means branch of ethics.

Though she (the ambassador) could be like Serena, not thinking it through to well - if the policies were set up in Mexico she's out of a job isnt she.