The Handmaids tale

[DumbledoresArmy]

Anyone else planning on watching this at 9pm on channel 4?

A couple of questions came up for me from last night:

What do all the men actually do with their time? It seems that a lot of industry has been closed down - the publishing house that June used to work for, for instance. There must be a middle segment between the driver level and the commanders - the white collar middle managers if you like. Where do they work?

The sexual encounter between Fred and Serena - I think it was played quite well as if it was the first time they had been intimate in a long while. Did she give him oral sex or did he refuse? Is it forbidden in Gilead?

He refused oral sex. I guess that sort of sexual contact is forbidden.

I think the doctor got off on his position of power over the handmaids and also de facto over the commanders, who were hypothetically raising his babies as their own. I don't think it was just a sex thing.

I think he was also an opportunist; he offered this 'service' because he could, and the handmaids who refused were lucky that he did not exact revenge by making up some transgression that they could be pinished for. After all, it'd be her word against his, wouldn't it?
Also, shiuld any of them 'consent' to this, he'd still effectively be raping them, in the same way the Commanders do. The woman would be complying in irder to try and make her desperate situation better. So many layers to this - MA is an incredibly insightful writer.

Probably fighting?

I think the set up is similar to 1984 and the like - the people either work in propaganda, fighting wars, or surveillance on the people.

They do it for the power and the control. I don't think it's even about money. It's about control in the same way rape is about control.

It's like MA took rape and transformed it from an individual thing to a society thing. What would a raped society look like? Don't know if that makes sense

'What do all the men actually do with their time?'

They stand around on rooftops with guns, judging by what we've seen so far.

I was surprised Offred went to the doctor alone. I would have thought the wife would be there to hear if everything was ok for 'the ceremony'.
The would have been interesting - he could have asked both of them if he could try impregnating her - to get them both out of the shitty situation.

They stand around on rooftops with guns, judging by what we've seen so far

You can see where the expression 'Sod this for a game of soldiers' comes from.

Does anyone know if you are not fertile and not one of the ruling class can you just live with your husband? If you are old what happens?

A lot of men would also be doing paid jobs that historically women used to do - in the supermarket, for instance, all the people on the till were men. If there was high unemployment before the coup, you can see why some men might think, 'Well, it's horrible but at least I have a job now'

I definitely don't think it's about money. Power and control, of women and especially of fertility. There are a lot more men who basically think women are just objects for making more men, than we'd like to think.

i think it is mostly about power and control ...the 'regime' then recognise the monetary value in the power they hold..but that comes later...

the doctor was the creepiest character so far...and the actress played that scene so brilliantly ..i was holding my breath..say yes and possibly get pregnant and life is so much better for a while, say yes and the doctor was tricking her and reports her and she would most likely be executed, say no and he may make something up and she would be punished if not executed...could she trust him ???? those thoughts were playing across her face. Outstanding acting , then when he showed his face and he looked so creepy i was so pleased she had said no...ughh...

I had also been wondering how on earth the commnaders managed to get erections on ceremony night ? Ok so a few men would get a kick out of their wifes watching , and all the staff knowing what is going on...but most wouldn't . I am so glad they had the scene with him failing to achieve an erection...

I would imagine that doctor uses the "your commander is infertile" line with every hand maid he sees (with little regard to whether it is true) in order to persuade as many as he can to let him have sex with them.

I wonder what happened to men who had had vasectomies before the regime change. Would they be allowed to marry/stay married? Would they have had to keep up the pretence they were fertile and rape handmaiden after handmaiden until his wife was dead knowing she would never get pregnant?

Is the Ceremony only a singular occasion every month, or four or five consecutive times to encompass the Handmaid's fertile time. The Commander said something implying a Ceremony the night after the failed one, but was that just because he couldn't get it up?

That's a good point bandeau - in a society where fertility is so bad and woman are controlled like this, would they force unvasectomisation for men (totally a word)?

Should have included that in my 'what would happen to me' too. I imagine DH would be left to his bodily autonomy (possibly employed in a lowly role) and I'd be shipped off, unable to stay as an econowife

I'm probably the only one but I though the doctor was gay, and him offering to have sex with June (because her commander is infertile) was really ambiguous. Should she trust him, what happens if they're caught, is trying to help or catch her out for being disloyal, is he trying to impregnate the handmaids so that if anyone says he's a gay then he has witnesses to say he isn't (and also proof in the form of babies)? I thought it was a great scene, it really demonstrates that you don't know who can trust or turn to (even a doctor who should abide by patient confidentiality).

I think I'd be an econowife or shipped off. Does it matter what sex children you have? Are females a better commodity then boys (I've had boys).

So many typos - sorry pedants! Your eyes must be melting!

I presumed the doctor was gay too and he was genuinely offering a favour.

I can't watch episode 4 on my TV. It's not showing up on All4 on the TV, only on my phone

I reckon he is just one of those men who like to see themselves as 'saving' women.

Late to the party here, but did anyone else think the commander's failure to perform on ceremony night was purposeful to 'punish' Serena and change how she treats Ofred? I'm a big book fan so trying not to draw on that too much, but in Gilead the wives had total control over the household. The treatment of Handmaids was completely their domain. So the commander can't tell her to let Ofred out, but he can remove his contribution to the deal and dash Serena's hopes for another month.

At the moment our glimpses of the commander are slight so we have an almost sympathetic perspective of him, but he's got to be pretty horrible to be on that position.

The Commander is definitely being built up to be 'nice' so we can all be shocked when he turns out to be evil (in my opinion!)

I definitely thought the commander was angry when he arrived in the bedroom for the ceremony. I wondered if it was because of serena joy's dig earlier in the lounge about him being an early bird. Possibly he resents that she has the authority over that room on that evening. I also wondered if he was actually just wishing serena joy would piss off and let him shag his handmaid properly, like normal, pleasurable (for him) sex. I'm not sure if we are supposed to assume he is attracted to offred but I got the impression he is.

He's a commander in the regime that set up the whole awful system. However sympathetic he may appear, he is at the top of the food chain and a disgusting person for taking advantage.

I think he's feeling guilty at his part in it the regime and is trying to redeem himself / the household from the suicide of the previous Offred. June was excellent at manipulating that situation to her advantage and I think she'll continue to use it so she can get the commander to get his wife to do what she wants. I think the commander feels like he's paid-up when he affords June small luxuries like playing scrabble in exchange for sex.

I haven't read the book though so I'm probably wrong!

Remember the bombing and shooting of the protest march? Someone who gets to be a commander - really high up like Waterford, would have ordered that sort of stuff. Calling women sluts when they try to order coffee? Probably his idea. And we're supposed to think he feels guilty over one woman's death? That man has no conscience.