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Telly addicts

The Handmaids tale

999 replies

DumbledoresArmy · 28/05/2017 19:40

Anyone else planning on watching this at 9pm on channel 4?

OP posts:
TizzyDongue · 12/06/2017 22:28

Here's the news report is anyone's interested

www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/girl-sectioned-after-psychiatrist-ruled-out-abortion-1.3116111

Orlantina · 12/06/2017 22:29

And the majority of citizens didn't protest, either because they saw it as in the greater good to do this, or if they did protest, they'd be seen as traitors themselves

And you have to wonder how effective the propaganda was to get people to accept it? What kind of climate was created to make it so easy for it to happen?

KERALA1 · 12/06/2017 22:29

Dh is gripped and horrified. He's unquestioningly pro women as feels everything should be fair - lots of his friends women etc. So he gets it I think

PacificDogwod · 12/06/2017 22:30

As somebody said on another thread about something entirely different, it is important to remember that 'Nazi Germany' started out as simply 'Germany'. Subtle changes, many of them carried and approved of by many people became more and more pernicious and led to the best organised atrocities in living memory (and beyond).
Boiling a frog, indeed.

Smallangryplanet · 12/06/2017 22:35

Music was amazing apt as ever, I'm making a Spotify playlist.

The hospital facilities in this week's episode didn't seem austere.

I'm going to read all of MA's books.

Orlantina · 12/06/2017 22:36

One of the reasons that the Germans weren't able to be as effective as the Allies in producing weapons was because German women were encouraged to 'be good mothers bringing up children'

www.historylearningsite.co.uk/nazi-germany/the-role-of-women-in-nazi-germany/

August 12th had been the birthday of Hitler’s mother. On this day each year, the Motherhood Cross was awarded to women who had given birth to the largest number of children. The gold cross went to women who had produced 8 children; silver was for 6 children and bronze was for 4 children

In Nazi Germany it was not considered a social problem if an unmarried woman had a child. In fact it was encouraged. The Nazis established Lebensborn’s which were buildings where selected unmarried women could go to get pregnant by a “racially pure” SS man. These were not buildings that were hidden away in some back street. The government openly publicised them and they had a white flag with a red dot in the middle to identify them to the public.

PacificDogwod · 12/06/2017 22:40

Oh, I was going to mention the Motherhood Cross!

And Lebensborn... Angry
All of a sudden AHT seems like a documentary Sad

PacificDogwod · 12/06/2017 22:42

OMG, there's one one eBay

Note the vaguely Christian design with no obvious Nazi symbolism Hmm

DorothyL · 12/06/2017 22:44

My grandmother was given a bronze one
(Sorry, totally pointless fact)

HmmOkay · 12/06/2017 22:45

This is a bloody great thread. Thank you.

Another one equally hooked and disturbed here.

Only criticism (that I see a few others have made) is the sound - sometimes cannot hear what is being said and have to rewind to get it. Because you feel like every word is so precious. Like the Scrabble.

Could just be our TV, mind.

PacificDogwod · 12/06/2017 22:51

No, mumbling soundtracks are the new HiFI sound quality one aims for... Hmm

--not my middle-aged ears..

IMO there are areas that could be more detailed but would go beyond a 'normal' sized novel or a TV series: as mentioned upthread, what about the world's reaction to the US government being overthrown by religious nutters; what about more detail about why the birthrate has declined as much; the warts and piles of pregnancy and childbirth; what happened to men who did not fall in line (although some of that is likely to be revealed later) etc etc.

Dorothy, I am sure there will be loads of them kicking about.
And much as I do think every mother deserves a medal just for putting up with motherhood Grin, the Mutterkreuz is just a hideous symbol of everything that is wrong with putting fertile women on some kind of pedestal and somehow keeping them beholden to their fertility. Gah!!

InigoTaran · 12/06/2017 22:57

Some examples of anti Jewish propaganda here:

madefrom.com/history/nazi-germany/examples-anti-jewish-propaganda-nazi-germany/

CoolCarrie · 12/06/2017 22:59

Sophie Scholl and the others in The White Rose, were remarkable young people and the film about her is brilliant, chilling, but brilliant.

InigoTaran · 12/06/2017 23:01

This article about the role of women in Nazi Germany has some shocking similarities with many aspects of THT. But then, Atwood did say that everything in the novel had actually already happened in the world...

alphahistory.com/nazigermany/women-in-nazi-germany/

Orlantina · 12/06/2017 23:11

I was watching a French TV series called Resistance. It's on 4 Player. One thing that really struck me was carrying ID. Having it checked, having to justify where you were going, what you were doing. That played a massive role in fear and control. There were also spies within the resistance.

You can see it now. A call for ID cards linked to a database. Fingerprints or eye scan. It would be explained that it could help catch people and if you don't have anything to hide, you don't have anything to fear.

Sounds reasonable. So we get compulsory ID cards. Trackable. Much easier to catch people.

Link it to social media. Phone records. Emails.

Resistance would be much harder.

InigoTaran · 12/06/2017 23:11

From the above article:

Hitler’s patriarchal views about women shaped Nazi policy and propaganda. One of the Nazis’ first policy objectives was to return women to motherhood in order to increase the population. In July 1933 the Nazi regime passed the Law for the Encouragement of Marriage. In effect an early form of ‘baby bonus’, married couples were given a state loan of 1000 Reichmarks that was partially repaid every time the wife gave birth (one quarter was deemed paid after the first child and the loan was discharged after four children). Between 1933 and 1936 the Nazi government issued these state loans to almost 695,000 married couples. German women were bombarded with speeches and propaganda that suggested their highest aspirations should be husband, home and healthy offspring. Pregnancy and motherhood were celebrated. Propaganda praised Kindersegen (women blessed with children) as national heroines. Women who bore multiple children were awarded a medallion, the Ehrenzeichen der Deutschen Mutter (‘Cross of Honour of the German Mother’). The cross was awarded in bronze for a fourth child, in silver for a sixth and gold for an eighth.

“The worth of a nation is shown in the willingness of its women to become valuable mothers … Germany must once again become a fertile land of mothers and children … the existence or non-existence of our people is decided solely by the mother.”
Mayer, Nazi eugenicist
As well as promoting motherhood, the Nazis also restricted abortion and contraception. During the 1920s Germany led the world in the development of contraceptive devices, including condoms, diaphragms and intra-uterine devices (IUDs). But the Nazis outlawed contraception – not only to increase the birthrate but also because many pioneers of contraceptive medicine were Jewish. Even publicising or discussing birth control was eventually banned in Nazi Germany. The regime also cracked down on abortion, imposing tough requirements for pregnancy terminations on medical grounds and harsh penalties for illegal abortions. Propaganda described abortion as a “crime against the body and against the state”. In 1932, the year before Hitler’s rise to power, just under 44,000 German women applied to terminate a pregnancy and 34,698 of these were approved. Between 1935 and 1940 there were only 14,333 applications and 9,701 approvals. Conversely, doctors would approve abortions – and indeed, even encourage them – if the patient happened to be non-Aryan. In November 1938 a Nazi-run state court ruled that abortion should be legal and freely available for all Jewish women.

While the Nazis hailed German mothers as national heroes, single women and working women were treated as second-class citizens. Hitler was full of scorn for women in paid employment. He called it a Marxist ploy, an attempt to clad women in overalls and work boots to strip them of their femininity. This derision for single and working women was reflected in policy. Unmarried women were viewed by the law as Staatsangehoriger (‘subjects of the state’), the same legal status later given to Jews and the mentally infirm. When the Nazis took power in 1933 there were 100,000 female teachers and 3,000 female doctors working in Germany. Most of them were eventually sacked, forced to resign or pushed into marriage and motherhood. From 1936 women were prohibited from working as judges, lawyers, principals and a range of other professions. Women were also removed from high-ranking or influential positions in government agencies, charities, schools and hospitals, to be replaced by men. University and college places for women were restricted to a firm quota of 10 per cent.

Orlantina · 12/06/2017 23:20

LGBT people were also treated awfully under the Nazis. As were many other groups who weren't ideal

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_homosexuals_in_Nazi_Germany_and_the_Holocaust

InigoTaran · 12/06/2017 23:31

This is an interesting article about how THT isn't as far fetched as you might think in America. And the video in it, well some of you whose husbands don't get it? You might relate to it...

advocatesaz.org/2017/05/30/bros-and-cons-a-glimpse-into-a-dystopic-present/

SomethingOnce · 12/06/2017 23:33

*Then finding all their money had been taken and couldn't own property. That scene sent chills down the spine - It was that easy.^

Mmm, very easy - wasn't there a remark to the effect that the regime suspended all accounts marked with an 'F' (as opposed to an 'M') at the touch of a button?

That's a drawback of the electronic age (systems, data, connectedness) I suppose; actions that would be difficult and slow with mountains of paper files to wade through, and prone to error, can happen instantly, simultaneously and in an accurately targeted way.

I worry that hostile states or hackers could pull off similar any time, never mind a regime that may creep up on us in future.

SomethingOnce · 12/06/2017 23:34

Blush Italicised quote fail in the first paragraph there

AnyFucker · 12/06/2017 23:44

Yep, recent hacking episodes a big worry too

SomethingOnce · 13/06/2017 00:02

Feels like it wouldn't take much to paralyse and seize control of a stable and democratic country, from within or without. And the degree of surveillance that we've willingly made possible with smartphones and those 'intelligent personal assistants' would make resistance almost impossible.

InigoTaran · 13/06/2017 00:12

Imagine an Alexa spying on you in your own home! Shock

Catrina1234 · 13/06/2017 00:13

I'm watching and will continue but it scares me and I keep thinking of it during the week. My 17 y old DGD is watching and she said it was scaring her so I hoped she's stop but she hasn't. I didn't think it was suitable for a young girl but someone just mentioned it was an A level text and DH said he thought it had been but I was convinced he'd got it wrong but obviously not. I don't think my DGD would know anything about FMG but maybe I'm being naive. Oh and the sound is crap.

TheweewitchRoz · 13/06/2017 00:36

Very chilling series. I've not read the book (it had even heard of it Blush) but will do after the series has finished.

Love this thread for discussion.

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