The Handmaids tale

[DumbledoresArmy]

Anyone else planning on watching this at 9pm on channel 4?

It's interesting what people are saying about blokes watching it. My husband fell asleep watching it and has shown some interest but sees it as an interesting story. Some of the men at work said they didn't get further than the first episode. I find it so powerful. So maybe you do have to be a woman to get it.

It's one of my DB's favourite books! I wonder what that says about him.

In the book isn't Ofglen's disappearance explained by a suggestion that she's escaped with the resistance movement? I suppose a tv adaptation can explore the situation more from other people's POV.

Did Janine have her eye removed in the book? I thought not.

Aunt Lydia is very good - really genuinely scary.

So maybe you do have to be a woman to get it.

I think there are levels. Even if men get it intellectually, it hits women much harder emotionally.

@LottieandMia - if I recall correctly, in the book, the original Ofglen saw the black van coming for her, so hung herself.

Oh yes, I think you're right! Thanks

It just makes you realise how fragile our freedoms are.

This is how I reframed it for DH: forget about the sexes involved/the fertility aspect. Think of how easily taken-for-granted civil liberties can be lost - if it can happen to women, it can happen to, say, socialists, or piano players, or anybody. He did get that.
And I then pointed out that women have lived with that kind of threat forever and always. Nope, he did not really get it - too uncomfortable, I think, for him

One thing that is really striking me, is Elizabeth Moss. I recently finished watching the West Wing, where she plays Zoe Bartlett. I keep on having moments where I see her in that role and it feels like being punched. As if the West Wing world became Galied and that kind of scenario would happen to the Zoe Bartlett character.
On books that Magerat Atwood has written, my favourites are The Handmaids Tale, The Blind Assasin and the MaddAdam series (Oryx and Crake, The Year of The Flood and MaddAdam). In the MaddAdam series, every technology that she mentions is something that is actually possible under current technology available.

Does the Serena Joy actress remind anyone else of Rosamund Pike? I really thought it was her. And the actress who plays Ofglen is superb, as is Elisabeth Moss. Agree it's the best thing on TV for years.

Joining the thread!

I managed to get dh to watch. He found the first episode tough - I think shocking, uncomfortable as his parents are so very religious and I don't think he's ever heard of it before do the concept of a hand maid etc was shocking. He jollied up when I mentioned how they got into power via pretend terrorist bombs etc; he is interested to find out more about how they wound up like that. I am quite pleased.

I'm loving it. It's too close to home now though since the DUP got in.

I think the cinematography is amazing.

And acting, obvs!

Alias Grace is one of the few books I've read several times, (after childhood stories).

One thing that has started to bug me slughtly about both the show and the book, is the lack of pregnancy complications.
In the USA one in three births are via c-section.
One of the most common complications is gingivitis and gum disease.
Also fifty percent of pregnant women will suffer pgp/spd.
And on a personal note (having experienced the first three things I mention anyway) constipation was hideous for me in both my pregnancies.
So maybe they are glossing over these issues, but surely in a state such as Gilead, these are things that would have to be looked at and considered. If the birth rate was that low, there is no way the State would be relying on natural birth to raise the number of live births. Maybe proper aftercare for the birth mother would be neglected. But I can't see a state that is that focused on raising birth rates, ruling out birth by other methods.
Just a little quibble, feel free to ignore!

I've watched every episode and I think it's really, really stunning. In the real sense of the word. The riot scene and the shooting into the crowd, and the coffee shop, were so frightening. It's such excellent television.

I have thought that too 101 You would have thought it would have been automatic CS, then then mother prepared and ready for the next. However, where there has been a take over, there is often an economic collapse as well. In the book there is austerity. Also, in countries like Romania where they tried to increase the birth rate, they just took away birth control and abortion, but did not look after the children - people were too poor and the orphanages were on public record for being dire.

And I then pointed out that women have lived with that kind of threat forever and always.

Yeah I think that is a really good point. You know all those men on the internet who tell feminists that they have nothing to worry about in the West and should stop being special snowflakes when women in other parts of the world have it so much harder?

Well they just don't get the underlying insecurity we feel. That we can't be complacent here because all our hard won rights could easily be taken away in a few regressive steps.

And then we'd have to rely on the benevolence of our husbands and just hope that we've got a generous one. Just like in HT where she has to rely on the benevolence of Luke.

Room101isWhereIUsedToLive i think, not read the book, it's because (like so many ultra religion groups) it's not actually about individual babies but more about ensuring women do what they are supposed to do - not have control over their bodies. Plus I think it's in the bible isn't it about women suffering in childbirth? Could be wrong - Adam and Eve stories I think.

There's an upsetting report in the papers here about a young girl being sectioned because she wanted an abortion. Abortion here is illegal unless the woman's life is endangered including suicide (as recognised by three doctors I think). She was denied an abortion and sectioned for being a danger to herself (as in suicidal). Reminded me very much of the Handmaids Tale.

Re the lack of c-sections, I see what you mean - it's a bit counterintuitive.
However remember that not only will the economy have collapsed, they have hanged half the doctors for practising abortion.

I did ask DH whether he understood how chilling it was for women. The conclusion was that he did think he got it, but he was not a woman.

Sorry - short conversation unfortunately. He is very drawn to Attwood and the tv adaptation, has been following all the discussion and reviews, so I do think he gets it, but I can't actually get into his head to be sure - what goes on there is a bit of a mystery anyway .

I just watched episode 3 tonight. What a chilling, disturbing episode. Feeling very shaken and angry right now. No words just

You would have thought it would have been automatic CS, then then mother prepared and ready for the next.

Very religious people are often so fixated on sex that common sense and pragmatism go out of the window.

Absolutely true, Lessthanaballpark.

A couple of threads recently have dealt with Theresa May taking human rights away as a result of terrorist attacks - and it's surprising how happily some will wave away their civil & human rights in law.

This is a harrowing reminder as to why that's not ok.

On the subject of CS vs natural births - I would say it's defintely a) austerity - it's v clear that Gilead is still 'at war' - there was a reference to 'the war must be going well in Florida' when they found the oranges in the supermarket.

And b) the ultra-religious extremism - everything is 'god's will' - maybe medical interventions like CS went against that?

The whole thing is so bloody scary, I can barely think too deeply about it. I thought the scariest thing this week was the armed militia walking into her workplace and the women all being let go. Then finding all their money had been taken and couldn't own property.

That scene sent chills down the spine - It was that easy.

A couple of threads recently have dealt with Theresa May taking human rights away as a result of terrorist attacks - and it's surprising how happily some will wave away their civil & human rights in law

You can see how regimes rise. Nazi Germany etc. What people are prepared to go along with and to turn a blind eye to.

I have so much respect for people who resist in such regimes. I was reading the biography of Sophie Scholl. She was a teenager under the Nazis. She resisted through spreading leaflets. That's all. But it was something. She was caught, arrested, had a quick trial and was executed the afternoon of her trial, just 3 days after her arrest. She and her friends were executed by guillotine. Into a room, put on a bench and killed aged 22.

So much awful stuff goes on in this world and there are incredibly brave people who fight it, knowing that they face certain death if caught.

Her last words were:

"How can we expect righteousness to prevail when there is hardly anyone willing to give himself up individually to a righteous cause? Such a fine, sunny day, and I have to go, but what does my death matter, if through us, thousands of people are awakened and stirred to action"

It saddens me that so many things go on in this world such as are depicted in the Handmaid's tale. And there is little we can realistically do to make a difference to the lives of people under such regimes.

Tonight's episodes had parallels for me with the rise of fascism in Nazi Germany, the way Jewish people were not allowed to own businesses or work in certain professions. Pp who had been an integral part of society, sometimes overnight, had these rights removed. And the majority of citizens didn't protest, either because they saw it as in the greater good to do this, or if they did protest, they'd be seen as traitors themselves.

Personally, I like how it's in a modern day setting, I think the changes to the book make it more relevant to today. It's fucking eerie tho, just how relevant it is, in a way that it wouldn't have been say, 10 years ago...

m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1872935739590606&id=5281959998&tn=%2As. This made me think about the last episode. I am hoping the link works. It is a video from the new York times about protests in Russia against Putin.