Anyone watching Madeleine McCann ten years on?

[spottysuperted]

They're framing it slightly differently now.. 😧 interesting from the bbc...

Thread seems to have derailed a bit since I last posted. But just on the scenario that Madeline wandered off I really don't think that would happen. She was only 3 is she likely to get up not find her parents and then open the front door of an apartment and wander off into the dark night on her own? A 3 year old is more likely to scream and cry until someone comes to their rescue. An older child might have more of an idea where the parents might be and go look for them but I really don't think a 3 year old would.

I would have died of starvation and shock.

And other people would think "I have other children, other responsibilities, I have to carry on, no matter how hard it is".

nauticant what they mean is that they would have done it all better.
They would have been better at grief.
They would have played the whole thing better

Yes, the more personal and unpleasant posts seem to be driven by the desire to cast the McCanns in the blackest light possible so the denouncer can feel good about themselves.

It's like the claims that for parents to leave kids asleep in their room while they went off to eat was an utterly outlandish ting to do. Although the evidence is clear all over the place that this was common (which doesn't mean the majority did it but many did), this must be denied in order to present the McCanns as having done something so extraordinary, so beyond the pale, that there is to be no limit to the amount of vilification to heap on their heads.

It's like the claims that for parents to leave kids asleep in their room while they went off to eat was an utterly outlandish ting to do

That's because it was. 3 children under 4? i've never known ANYONE who would do that. Massive neglect, and even if it was the "norm" that wouldn't change that fact.

Unquestionably it was a bad thing to do. The point is that the McCanns must be seen to be singularly bad in this respect, ie arguing that practically no one else ever did similar. This means denying the reality of what used to happen. That's just a bit too irrational for me.

Well tbf it's the Mccanns we're talking about. That's like saying about a burglar for example, well he's not bad really because others do it. You could literally say that about anything.

That's because it was

In context, it absolutely was. That's the point people are making- it doesn't matter that no one you know would ever do it, because at the time at Mark Warner resorts, it absolutely was common. The group didn't do anything different to what a baby listening service would do, and those are still widely available as shown by a poster upthread who found a number of hotels offering it.

Its not something I would do myself, because I'm very much not a children in bed at 7 sharp sort, but I still get that people would if they thought it was safe- which evidently they did prior to Madeleine going missing.

*that should be wasn't, obviously!

Precisely nauticant - including the many people who have used baby listening services over the years (and those who still do since it still appears to be offered by many hotels). It's true it probably wouldn't have happened if they hadn't left her, but that doesn't mean many people haven't done similar and still continue to do so for all we know.

This is slightly off topic but do posters think that baby listening as a service should continue to be offered? I was shocked that it still was. One thing maybe for babies in cots that can't get out but if you have a child that can get out and fiddle with things, by the time the listener has made a phone call it could well be too late. Do baby listening services have an age cut off?

There wasn't a baby listening service, they discontinued it because the apartments were private and spread out and it wasn't considered safe enough. They discontinued it and let the guests know why when the Mccann's and co stayed. The apartments were not located within the Mark Warner complex, Mark Warner rented some apartments from private owners because they backed onto or were around their complex. Within the complex there was a creche with sleeping facilities or you could hire one of the daytime creche workers as a babysitter. Those services were used by everyone else that stayed before the Tapas 9. No one has ever come forward and said they left their children alone, not a single soul.

Hotels are a very different set up. They have cctv, locked doors, they are accessed by one main door which goes past a manned reception desk. People have to be guests or employees to go in and out.

Children can get up and fiddle with stuff at home too. In fact there are more dangers in the average home than in a simply furnished hotel room.

I don't see the difference between a baby listening service in a hotel and a baby monitor in a big house or when you're staying with friends. Even if you sit at the end of the garden with a baby monitor. It's a massive difference to leaving small children in an unlocked house or apartment and going out for the evening.

The McCanns have repeatedly said it felt safe. They obviously know very differently now - but do you think they actually willingly, knowingly put their child at risk? They thought it was safe - they were in a group of parents all doing the same thing. I'm sure they wring themselves out every day with the sheer guilt of it.

Like I said, I wouldn't have done it - but I find this repeated, constant mauling of them about this a bit sickening really. It's like you delight in criticising them.

Well they're hardly going to say it didn't feel safe are they.. How can they possibly have thought it was safe. They're intelligent adults, they know all the dangers,Id say it was more a case of, they knew it wasnt safe but were prepared to take the risks.I don't think anyone delights in saying this but why beat round the bush.

A 3 year old can open a heavy door and wander off. I recently found a 3 year old in a resort hotel crying in the corridors as her mum & dad were not there, and she had been locked out of the room. Turned out her mum & dad were in the nightclub.

No one willingly or knowingly puts their child at risk! People run risks, which is very different to intentionally putting their child at risk.

They did not intend harm to come to their child. If she was found at the bottom of the steps it would be a very different story. One in which their neglect would have been discussed in full as to whether it was manslaughter or not and no one would be calling that maurading. A lot of people believe harm came to her as a direct result of being left alone. I think that's why they are criticised, not because anyone is glad they suffer. That's ridiculous.

No one willingly or knowingly puts their child at risk!

Of course they do. Parents abuse, mistreat and genuinely neglect their children more than I like to think about.

And many posters on here like to gleefully discuss the ins and outs of it - I think it makes you feel good about yourself?

I think all the discussion about the McCanns has from the very beginning stemmed from the fact that many people do not like them. Nothing to do with being doctors or middle class (were they even middle class?) , but their random behaviour. Not answering questions, pacts of silence, no reconstructions, and - I remember discussing this at the school gate at the time - Kate McCann having her highlights redone and going shopping for new clothes in the days after Madeleine's disappearance. Of course everyone deals with panic and grief differently, but being bothered about how you look?

Now, I have no theories as to what happened to Madeleine, and I can't imagine in a million years the parents were involved, but they behaved weirdly. Although people feel anguish about the fate of Madeleine and can only imagine in their wildest nightmares what the parents must have gone through, it still doesn't alter the fact that the McCanns are just not very sympathetic characters.

All through this thread - The "oh, I can't believe xyz" or "it just doesn't add up" - even going so far as discussing Kate McCann eating the next day. Yes, because starving to death is really going to help find Madeleine and her other children isn't it?

IMO it's because posts discussing the Amaral theory are deleted - so it's just another way of sticking the boot in without breaking HQ guidelines.

I don't know the McCanns so will refrain from comment

Not talking about people who mistreat and abuse their kids. Talking about normal parents.

I don't judge anyone for how they react following grief. Presumably they'd be grieving however they lost her.

Now, I have no theories as to what happened to Madeleine, and I can't imagine in a million years the parents were involved, but they behaved weirdly.

Could you tell us why you feel competent to make that assessment? It's just that you haven't offered any evidence for this, so with that in mind it's important you spell out whether you have any qualifications or experiences that would mean you've some idea what constitutes weird behaviour, or whether this is just the Dunning Kruger effect.

Nothing to do with being doctors or middle class (were they even middle class?) , but their random behaviour. Not answering questions, pacts of silence, no reconstructions, and - I remember discussing this at the school gate at the time - Kate McCann having her highlights redone and going shopping for new clothes in the days after Madeleine's disappearance

Oh dear mousy what a spiteful post. Like they care if you think they are middle class. What a pathetic little dig.

And erm on holiday and having to stay later because your daughters gone missing - what do you want sack cloth and ashes? Or a trip to stock up on t shirts.

And they were invited back to do a reconstruction, agreed, although this was around the anniversary and not straight away but because the Portuguese police couldn't answer how and why some of their friends pulled out leaving it pointless for them to go.