Apple Tree Yard starts on Sunday! [MNHQ message: No spoilers please, including what happens in the book!]

[Destinysdaughter]

I really enjoyed the book so looking forward to this. It's in 4 parts with Emily Watson playing the main character and Ben Chaplin as her lover. BBC1 9pm

Good article about it here.

www.theguardian.com/film/2017/jan/14/emily-watson-apple-tree-yard-middle-aged-women-infidelity-sexuality#comments

I think the trouble with putting something on screen is that a lot of the nuance in the book is lost.

I too think she played him. I think she knew that the "spook" fantasy was of her own creation, and I agree she knew she was planting the seed of the murder in X's head.

At the end, I think she was cleverer than him. I think the difference between them was that she understood the fantasy element and he didn't. I'm beginning to wonder about the "successful geneticist" angle too. Was she as successful as we were led to believe? Did she dupe the jury into thinking she was something she wasn't? Was the non-reporting of the rape deliberate, to gain sympathy in court from the jury?

So many facets! I'm going to watch it all again. saddo.

Interesting ending and very thought provoking. Woman of high standing gets off and bloke who is just a security guard gets sentenced. Why did she go to visit him? Why denigrate your hard fought for professional status?

She sounded depressed and worn down. Confined now to a life as grandma and in a relationship that is broken, despite the seemingly happy life ending.

It was depressing, but shocking that we never really know other people and that our hopes and ambitions are crushed under domesticity and home life. She will now probably take up a hobby to take her mind off things. She lost out, BC's wife and children lost out. He lost out. But I suppose when something so shocking as a seedy affair and a murder, plus a trial happens those are the consequences.

Awful questioning by BC's barrister regarding flirting. Made me sick watching it.

Just read that she is writing a sequel

I don't think she gaslit Costley, or that she was seriously asking him to kill Selby. She made a flippant remark about the man who had raped her, which is the type of thing we've all said in anger at times. Costley, who thought of himself as more of a 'hard man' than he really was, decided to get physical in order to impress her. I doubt he actually meant to kill him. In short, I think the verdicts were both correct, really.

If Mark genuinely thought she wanted him dead, then he was covering for her, so he why tell the barrister the sex details? He want throwing her under the bus

He wanted people to know that they had had an affair, to show that he was attractive to her. He seems to have a bit of an inferiority complex, maybe related to failing to get into MI5. He's not all that bright, and I doubt he realised the fact that forcing her to reveal the affair would throw her entire credibility into doubt.

they can make fake street signs, you know Really?

I think he gave the barrister the sex details because he wanted her husband to know about it

So the CCTV camera wasn't a dummy one after all? He wasn't even a very good security expert then?

I did wonder why the policewoman didn't deny the fingering scenario. It can only have been her word against his, as nobody else could surely have known that was happening.

Cel982 and Notjanine I agree re your theories about why Mark told his barrister about the affair. Not because he wanted to drop Yvonne in it (if so, he'd have spoken out about what she'd said re killing George) but that he was jealous and had an inferiority complex. It looked to him as though Yvonne had a happy marriage and he couldn't handle that.

One thing I'm left puzzling over is the jury's verdict on Mark. I'm really surprised they bought the personality disorder theory, given that the prosecution did a pretty good job of discrediting the young psychologist's PHD.

Didn't Mark tell her in the prison visit scene that he told them about the affair, to make sure their story was out there and real? Because it meant so much to him? Unlikely, I know.

I'm confused about the "brilliant geneticist" thing. She tells Mark she's not as successful as he thinks; but Gary, in their argument near the end, accuses her of always thinking she's better than him, including being better at her work than him.

So IS she or is she not successful?

Re: the computer. I thought we heard her writing to Mark on it after the arrest etc, when surely it would have been seized by then?

Did Gary leave her or are they trying to patch things up? There's an idea in my household that he's left her, because he packs a bag and walks out after their argument, and they only go to visit the daughter and baby together to try to keep some kind of normality. But I think they stay together, although obviously their relationship will take a long time to recover.

Thought Gary was a real pig expecting his affair to be kept quiet to the daughter.

I'd be interested to read the sequel, what happens when Mark iis released?

She is successful. These days you don't get to keep a research job in academia without being good at it. And I know plenty of women academics who anyone else would consider very bright but who have an infinite capacity to put themselves down. 'I haven't published any original work for years' is consistent with her having a very good publishing record, she just doesn't consider her work to be original.
But most scientists would reject the concept of being 'brilliant', or say that it only applies to a very few people - it tends to be a word used by people outside the field rather than inside it. So I think she enjoyed playing the role of being 'brilliant', knowing it was a role, it just doesn't mean she isn't good at what she does iyswim.

I thought it pretty unfair that the dd knew about her mothers affair but not her fathers. It makes you think about the whole family and what Yvonne struggled with while having a career and children compared to her husband.

I do think a lot of it was based on the fact that she was cleverer than mark. And ultimately used him to get what she wanted.

Thought Gary was a real pig expecting his affair to be kept quiet to the daughter

Me too! I got the impression that Yvonne's friend (when visiting her in prison after it came out in court about her affair), also didn't know about Gary's fling, and Yvonne didn't tell her.

I was upset with Gary for that too. She'd maybe not have looked twice at X if he'd not made her feel like there was something off with him and that Rosa, yet he wants to be covered in glory by their daughter for standing by Yvonne! I was starting to warm to him too after the kitchen scene in ep3 too, so he massively disappointed me!

He boldly swept her off her feet at the start and she constructed the fantasy alpha male persona for him where he is a spy in order to 'justify' shagging a random cheeky bloke in a broom cupboard.

She wanted to enjoy a glamorous exciting affair so she allowed herself to see it like that
she wanted to be the famme fatale that this high status man found irresistible

She could've told her friend who thinks the sun shines out of Gary's backside all about it too, but chose to continue letting her believe that he's a 'good man'. That's the thanks she gets!

The bit that frustrated me last night and that was a massive change from the book was him saying he told his barrister about the affair to make it 'real' etc - all quite wishy washy and meh IMO.

In the book, he realises the whole 'diminished responsibility' thing isn't gong to wash after all so he changes his plea mid-trial to 'loss of control' - and the revelation of the affair provides the motive for that (ie. passion, avenging the one he loved etc). I was really disappointed that after the knocking on the glass to his barrister, there wasn't a dramatic moment in court when it was announced he'd changed his plea.

Also, the 'really easy' thing - why would the police randomly interview some people that went to an unconnected event ages ago? Unless they were hunting for background info on previous times George and Yvonne had been together?

Carrie I agree that it seems a bit far-fetched that they stumbled across the 'really easy' comment. Though if that young student fancied her and was annoyed by her rejection of him, perhaps he was keen to speak against her?

Also, the 'really easy' thing - why would the police randomly interview some people that went to an unconnected event ages ago? Unless they were hunting for background info on previous times George and Yvonne had been together?

But I think they would absolutely do that (not the police, necessarily, but Costley's team, and the prosecution) - look for 'evidence', however flimsy, that Yvonne had flirted with Selby, that they had been closer than she was making out. Just any way to tarnish her credibility and make the jury doubt her version of events.

I agree with those above who wouldn't give much credence to her "I've misrepresented myself as a great scientist" shtick - I think that's just self-deprecation/imposter syndrome rather than an admission of some great deception. Possibly trying to make Mark feel better about himself for 'pretending' to be a spy which he didn't actually do.

I think that, too, wading. I can't think of any other context for it, although in the book I think the quip was made around the coffee machine, not in the lecture theatre. I suppose it could have been stated by Yvonne's other female colleague who may have borne a grudge against Yvonne?

I had the feeling that comment may prove significant, though. It also seemed slightly out of character for Yvonne to say, somehow. It's a flippant comment-the sort of thing I'd say....

Yvonne seemed very serious to me, and not prone to flippancy.

'Really easy' comment is just ott.
No-one would remember it, the police wouldn't take it seriously and the barrister wouldn't either.
Everything else can be explained away I think.

VivDeering Tue 07-Feb-17 10:41:07
they can make fake street signs, you know Really?

Yes, really!
There is a place called ATY but it wasn't where the scene was filmed. Have a google. So they did make a street sign.