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Poldark - series 2

542 replies

snozzlemaid · 28/08/2016 20:58

One week to go. Anyone else can't wait?
I've just started to rewatch the first series. Not sure if I'll get to watch it all again before next Sunday though.

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WomanWithAltitude · 24/10/2016 22:06

If the books show a rape then the series should too.

What the series should NOT do is show us a rape and then tell us it was consensual really because Elizabeth wanted to be forced.

That's not on in the slightest.

PoldarksBreeches · 24/10/2016 22:11

I thought the books did have a rape scene. I haven't read them. The BBC version seems to be the worst of both options. Doesn't redeem Ross and absolve him of rape but also feeds into shitty rape myths. They should have been joyfully hate bonking if that's what they were going for - but that really wouldn't have been in character for Elizabeth wet blanket

GruffaloZogTiddler · 24/10/2016 22:20

One thing that stands out to me when comparing it to the text:

*Warleggan: Book 3

Elizabeth: “Ross, you can't intend. Stop! Stop, I tell you.”

But he took no further notice. He lifted her in his arms and carried her to the bed. *

In the episode he threw her onto the bed with aggresion whereas carrying her seems a little more gentle?

The whole exchange was aggressive. I don't understand why they didn't give a pause, a moment where they looked into each others eyes and thought, "we are still in love so let's do it".

The fact is even in the text her protests would be seen as not giving consent so it would be rape, in the modern world.
But these books were written long ago and set in a period where it would have been considered passion and (eventually) consensual on both sides. If we judge it according to its era and the context of first love and all that, I don't think it is rape. But to fit it with what we know about consent and rape now the producers should have given it a more romantic view, where clearly both wanted it. Why they didn't is beyond me... They may have lost many viewers as Ross is no longer a hero in the eyes of many.

GruffaloZogTiddler · 24/10/2016 22:22

I meant the whole exchange in the episode was aggressive.

Girliefriendlikesflowers · 24/10/2016 22:30

I really want to read the books now!

Agree with all the pps that the scene was awful and very uncomfortable to watch. It seemed very much that Ross went over there just to rape her Shock and therefore make her unmarriable? And for him then to justify it by saying he had 'no choice' Hmm yeah right.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 24/10/2016 23:11

I think when the books were written (40s/50s) there was very much a societal expectation that "nice" women weren't really up for sex. The "No, no, well alright then" thing was pretty much par for the course for depicting a sexy scene in popular fiction.

But it is 2016. We know better now. And the Beeb should really bloody well know better. How many people who should know better will have previewed this and decided it is okay? It is so crass it is mind boggling.

ShelaghTurner · 24/10/2016 23:15

In the original adaptation he climbs into her bedroom through the window. She is shocked and tells him to go but she asks him what's wrong as she can see he's in a strange mood. He tells her that someone was killed that day at the mine because of him - they threw their life away and he didn't stop them. She mustn't throw her life away. She's sympathetic but tells him he must leave the way he came or she'll call someone. They argue about her marrying George and then he repeats that he will stop her. Then he moves towards her again saying he will stop her, she realises what he's about, says "Oh my God" and he pushes her onto the bed as the camera fades away.

Then it shows them after, lying side by side not touching and both with identical "oh shit" expressions.

GruffaloZogTiddler · 24/10/2016 23:19

...Having rewatchdd the scene where Demelza knocks him to the ground I can't get over how pathetic his "you must see I had no choice"
He should be grovelling! AngryShock

Lorelei76 · 24/10/2016 23:59

"They may have lost many viewers as Ross is no longer a hero in the eyes of many."

Ah, that's my question answered. So the BBC have had a supposed hero rape someone, with all the worst kind of no means yes bullshit...? Bloody hell, who passed that?

beguilingeyes · 25/10/2016 00:36

At the BFI preview in August Debbie Horsfield said that the scene had been filmed as wholly consensual. I was really shocked last night when they dug up the old 'she wants it really ' cliché. Is that really the best they could come up with?

JellyWitch · 25/10/2016 10:35

I think it certainly condemns Ross as an arse of the most thorough kind.

MaQueen · 25/10/2016 10:38

I thought it looked consensual? Elizabeth looked shocked, rather than frightened. And as Ross started kissing her on the bed she is clearly kissing him back and embracing him.

Afterwards it's clear they have both slept together in the same bed, and Elizabeth seems very calm and together. Not upset at all.

It's a tricky one to figure out.

GruffaloZogTiddler · 25/10/2016 10:47

If it is ok to post, Episode 9 promo.

JellyWitch · 25/10/2016 11:05

Thanks for that Gruffalo. I'm looking forward to it!

Dulra · 25/10/2016 11:52

Thanks for sharing trailer. So the consensus seems to be that it was rape. I think it was and when I read the book that is what I thought it was. Debbie Horsfield should not have interpreted it as consensual for the viewer. If she had said nothing and let the viewer decide there wouldn't be this outcry. They can't have ross as a hero because he's not and never was he is a complex character who often tries to do good and is the voice and advocate for his miners and their families but he is not perfect and was not portrayed that way in the books. I think people's disgust is justified when I read that scene in the book I hated ross after it and wasn't going to bother reading any more of the books but I'm really glad I did. My opinion though of ross has changed little

beguilingeyes · 25/10/2016 12:30

Where did Demelza get that amazing dress? She's been making clothes out of old shirts and now she has that?

ElspethFlashman · 25/10/2016 12:34

Why does Elizabeth postpone the wedding? What for? Does she do that in the books?

ShelaghTurner · 25/10/2016 12:35

As far as I remember she speeds up the wedding in the books

ShelaghTurner · 25/10/2016 12:39

I stand corrected. She asks George for a postponement and he refuses, they debate it and they settle on a month's time (instead of three days), which is when they do marry.

TabithaBethia · 25/10/2016 12:44

The bbc have given us a consensual scene I think. There is a moment where Elizabeth comes up close to Ross and I think that is where it stops being potential rape and becomes torrid sex scene.

The book lacks details about it. He carried her to the bed leaves out any indication of her fighting him off or frozen in fear etc.

It has changed the series I agree. No more cuddly man of the people Ross.

beguilingeyes · 25/10/2016 13:03

She doesn't really want to marry George (in the books), she feels that he's backed her into a corner and she wants breathing space. Ross's action must have made the marriage more likely rather then less as she must have known that pregnancy was a possibility.

MaQueen · 25/10/2016 13:18

I agree that being raped would incline Elizabeth to need to marry George even more, because of possible pregnancy. Surely Ross would have thought of that, too?

So when he said 'I had no choice' did he mean he couldn't bear the thought of George having sex with Elizabeth, and had to get in there first (ick).

GruffaloZogTiddler · 25/10/2016 13:57

I agree Dulra, Ross is a complex character. He was never a straight forward hero, we see him fight for the poor and often detest the ways of the people of his own class, but often he makes financial mistakes, is proud and flirts with Elizabeth. But I think he was still seen as mostly good however, this sex scene is just too confusing. Cheating on his wife, possibly raping Elizabeth. The bbc really should have given this another angle as people won't be rooting for him any more.

I think in the books Elizabeth asks George for time as thinking space about Ross (obviously not telling George that), not because she seriously considers pregnancy or that Ross and her could elope? Any thought of pregnancy would make her marry quicker I think.

Ross sleeping with Elizabeth wouldn't really stop her marrying George, as what future could her and Ross have together? I fear you may be right MaQueen, that he couldn't bear George being intimate with her so "had" to do it too? Sad

MaQueen · 25/10/2016 14:15

Yep, it's just a case of Ross 'marking his territory' really (nice).

TabithaBethia · 25/10/2016 14:36

I don't think it was marking territory -eww - I think it's ruining Elizabeth for George and 'closure' on his love for her.

She is relieved to marry George because it solves all her problems (I don't blame her) but she doesn't love him and still has an unresolved thing about Ross.