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GAME OF THRONES S6 E4 - SPOILER AND FAN THEORY DISCUSSIONS WARNING 2AM SHOWING ONWARDS

285 replies

EverySongbirdSays · 16/05/2016 01:46

Thread for this weeks episode - Book of the Stranger 16/5/16

SPOILERS

ARE

COMING

GO TO THE OTHER THREAD IF YOU HAVE NOT SEEN THIS EPISODE UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY TO BE SPOILED

AND WHAT DO WE SAY TO THOSE WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT SPOILERS?

WE SAY NOT TODAY!

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TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 14:43

Hmmm. I am not sure the show is always totally logical. I would not have told Loras, no.

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 16:32

It would be uncharitable but true to say that Sansa single-handedly caused the demise of House Stark, although she did not personally kill anyone.

weirdsister · 17/05/2016 16:51

Margery knows about Joffrey. Would she tell the secret to make it all stop for Loras?

Amibambini · 17/05/2016 17:10

TheNorthRemembers.. Really? I think the ball started to roll to their ruin when John Arryn was poisoned because he figured out the whole 3 blonde kids of Robert Baratheon weren't his but a product of Cersie's incest, so Robert went to Ned to be his new hand and Ned being so upright and fastidious followed it all up and wouldn't let it go. Sansa was nothing more than a pawn. Rob Stark marrying for love also totally fucked the Starks.

JonSnowsBeardClippings · 17/05/2016 17:12

Nah - Ned takes responsibility for that by telling cersei he knew about her and jaime

rollonthesummer · 17/05/2016 17:15

I'm not sure Margery would hand over her Grandma even to save Loras

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EverySongbirdSays · 17/05/2016 17:56

Why do you think that about Sansa north? Confused

Or do you count it from when she lied for Joffrey and Lady died and Nymeria went missing ?

Oo theory about the wolves and foreshadowing

Grey Wind dead - robb dead
Nymeria missing - Arya missing
Lady Dead - Sansa??
Shaggy??
Ghost and Summer alive - bran and Jon alive

Also I doubt Osha will have been let in on a GNC being a wildling and everything. Shaggydog lives??!

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TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 17:57

I am not saying Sansa did it all on purpose, but they all could have got away on the ship if she did not grass the Ned up to Cersei. I can forgive her for that, but what happened to Jeyne Poole, I can't. Sansa was young, but she should have stopped and thought what would happen to her only friend. It does not mean I wish Sansa ill, but my heart breaks for Jeyne in ways it does not for Sansa.

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 17:59

It may have happened differently on the show, bt I am a bit confused now what happened where.

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EverySongbirdSays · 17/05/2016 18:02

Jeyne not being in the series and it being that long since I read the books I can't remember what you mean. Did she encourage her to impersonate arya? Therefore leading to her inevitable rape and mistreatment?

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EverySongbirdSays · 17/05/2016 18:04

Ah yes - the ship but she didn't get it because he didn't explain properly and she was the future queen then

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weirdsister · 17/05/2016 18:04

I don't know what Sansa did either.Confused

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 18:16

Sansa may not have understood why Ned asked her to keep the secret, but despite excelling at everything to do with being a lady, she betrayed her father and her family. I like her and I accept that she was a spilt silly girl, but actually it is a big deal in their society.

Jeyne Poole was Sansa's best and only friend from Winterfell who came to King's Landings with her as a kind of lady-in-waiting. Sansa was already isolated (in house arrest) after the Stark household was massacred when Sansa complained to Cersei that Jeyne is annoying. After everything she saw the Lannister did to her family! As a result Jeyne disappeared from one day to the next. The book readers know that she was given to Littlefinger, who put her into a brothel to "train" to be a prostitute. Later the Lannisters and the Boltons made her pretend to be Arya and marry Ramsay. She went through horrific abuse (the Sansa-Ramsay marriage was a very light version of Jeyne's fate) and is now on the run with Theon, captured by Stannis.

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 18:17

spoilt, not split girl. (where is my brain when ranting?!)

rollonthesummer · 17/05/2016 18:19

What did Sanza do to betray Ned?

TheUnsullied · 17/05/2016 18:26

Sansa went to Cersei and told her about Eddard's plan to get him, his family and his men out of Kings Landing and back to Winterfell. They were supposed to be gone without announcing their departure so they weren't stopped. Eddard knew they were in danger. Sansa fancied Joffrey and didn't want to leave.

Eddard's death triggered Rob to move against the Lannisters, resulting in his and Catelyn's death.

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 18:28

Ned had his big showdown with Cersei, where he confronted her and she admitted that Jaime is the father of all her children. When it became apparent that she will not go quietly, as Ned proposed, Ned hired a ship and they were meant to leave King's Landing at night. Ned asked the girls nicely to keep this a secret, but did not say why. In fairness, in feudal societies, the head of the household does not really have to give reasons. However, Sansa was worried about leaving Joffrey and told Cersei about the ship. The rest is history.

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 18:30

Sansa was the modern day Lyanna by the looks of it. (Although we have no clue what Lyanna did.)

ValleyClouds · 17/05/2016 18:48

I haven't read the books in years not since I finished ADWD but I remember not liking Sansa particularly at all until AFOC when she's been brought down several pegs. I like her far more in the show where they've given her Jeynes story - I'm wondering if the death of Lady signifies the end of the ladylike Sansa to the doesn't give a fuck Sansa

ClashCityRocker · 17/05/2016 18:54

Let's face it, both Ned and Catelynn were a bit dim. It's a wonder the kids have so much pluck really.

Amibambini · 17/05/2016 19:06

TheNorthRemembers - thanks for the recap! Of course!!

TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 19:25

I did not mean to upset anyone with the recap, but the reason I love GRRM is that none of the characters are black or white.

Now looking back, emphasising in the Tower of Joy flashback that Ned lied reminds us how little we know of him. It does not mean that he always lies. Ned being honourable now does not mean he has never ever uttered a falsehood.

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EverySongbirdSays · 17/05/2016 19:28

I don't think anyone's upset North - we all love the debate. Don't worry!

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TheNorthRemembers · 17/05/2016 19:29

Clash Well, Ned was not raised to rule. It was thrust upon him really. He must have expected a quiet life in the North with one of their bannermen's daughters.

Amibambini · 17/05/2016 19:37

Yeah don't apologise, it's been a while since I read the books and the plotting is so complex it's great to be reminded. And you are right, one of the great things about that narrative world is the complexity of the characters. No-one is purely bad or good (aside from Ramsey Bolton/Evil Elijah Wood, he the devil). I enjoyed noble Ned having part of honourable history being laid bare to his son.