BBC2 on now! Hillsborough Anybody watching?

[SoleBizzz]

Nothing was being done.

I thought the policeman was excellent as well - the one who said he had a breakdown a few months later at a level crossing. Made me realise it wasn't just the fans and families that suffered. He was doing his best to save people and he couldn't get over it.

Just in case anyone has missed this excellent long read article by David Conn in the Guardian

There was also a recent article about the role and current position of the FA in the Guardian here.

Thanks, Honey

Pleasure.

I think along with current behaviour at the time and heysel happening it tainted people view of what had gone on and why the lies had been believed at first/for so long

One of the Bradford players said in the doc on the fire that went people ran onto the pitch his first thought was hooligans again till became clear why they were running.

So all that probably did factor into what was being said and believed and when people of authority say those as facts doubt little doubt is there to begin with at least.
Least now the truth is out but still to late really. Could've been done years back and all those involved lived to see the verdict rather then dragging it out 27 years.

Watching it again, I'd missed the first 5 mins before.
That blonde mum, she breaks my heart. Her boy was so young!

I finished watching this on iplayer too. The most powerful documentary. Seeing the worst of people and also the best of people. I have the utmost respect for the families and their supporters.

Just shocking.

Oh my. I've just watched this tbh my head is still spinning.

I'm in awe at the tenacity of the families, that they were able to keep going.

And Prof Scraton, surely he should be honoured in some way.

I really hope they don't change the BBC. It would be a sad day if this kind of broadcasting becomes diluted.

A great honour for him (and them all) thanks for posting that

I agree with PP, with all these honours that go out every year, Prof Scraton should be top of the list for services to justice. He was amazing and I loved him on this documentary. So articulate and engaged and when we broke down at the end, it was heartbreaking. What a man.

Thanks for that link. I'm so glad to see some recognition. I would like to see some New Year Honours too.

I have such admiration for people who stand up, be counted and fight for justice and for others. Integrity, truth, justice, bravery, courage, conviction.

I read some of Duckenfield's testimony from the inquest. Yes, he's admitted his failings but it was still a bit 'yeah, but they were drunk'. So it's still a deflection. He seems a deeply flawed character and should have just stfu after his damascene moment. .

I'm hoping too that the CPS can speed things up so charges are levelled whilst they are all still fit to stand trial. I did read though that Duckenfield is currently immune from prosecution as he testified or something? So there needs to be some legal juggling to have that overturned. I must reread.

I still can't quite articulate my thoughts.

I hope to god that Duckenfield watch the programme. I hope he saw the mother who was told she couldn't hug her son.

For me that was the thing that upset me the most.

Duckenfield fucked up, he knew he'd fucked up while the people were still trapped and dying and he saved himself first and foremost.

One lie caused another, and another and another.

The govt was lied to, I'm sure.

But when a semblance of truth was revealed to the government of the time via the Interim Taylor Report of August 1989 the government, specifically Thatcher chose to minimise the impact on the police and the criticism of the police. The government of the day was not a passive force in the Hillsborough cover up.

I see that Professor Scraton's book, "The Truth" is being re-released in July. I assume he will be adding the chapter which finally brought justice for the 96.

Thatcher did indeed play a part in the cover up. Dougkas Hurd wanted to reveal it all after Lord Justice Taylor's report (from the Liverpool Echo)

"She (Thatcher) was told in a memo from a senior civil servant the interim report found the chief superintendent in charge at Hillsborough “behaved in an indecisive fashion” and senior officers infuriated the judge by seeking to “duck all responsibility when giving evidence” to his inquiry.

The memo made clear Mr Hurd thought South Yorkshire Chief Constable Peter Wright would have to resign, adding: “The enormity of the disaster, and the extent to which the inquiry blames the police, demand this.”

It added: “The defensive, and at times close to deceitful, behaviour by the senior officers in South Yorkshire sounds depressingly familiar.”

But Mrs Thatcher made clear in her handwritten note she did not want to give the government’s full backing to Lord Taylor’s criticisms, only to the way in which he had conducted his inquiry and made recommendations for action.

She wrote: “What do we mean by ‘welcoming the broad thrust of the report’? The broad thrust is devastating criticism of the police. Is that for us to welcome? Surely we welcome the thoroughness of the report and its recommendations – M.T.”

Yes, that's what I was referring to. The Huffington Post article that I liked to upthread quotes the same memo/note. The upshot was the chief of S. Yorks police remained in his post and his team continued to propagate the lies.

I agree Phil scraton should be awarded for his dedication, work, support of the families and ultimately justice for the 96.

The saddest part for me was the relatives having to search through pics of the dead, how inhumane and despicable
Also the lady not allowed to hug her son, no one should ever be denied that right.

I had to watch this in segments it was so upsetting, and I consider myself pretty tough, I'm rarely moved by anything
I'll be buying Phil scratons book on its re-release

I cried more the second time I watched it, the first time I was just in shock and so very angry.

Those poor mothers, the poor surviving sister, son, fathers.

Those who survived but witnessed it all. They wouldn't have got the support they needed.

I don't suppose PTSD was even thought of then.
How the survivors have coped doesn't bear thinking about without support, therapy and medication
Same for the police officers who were powerless

I watched it this week - DH has recorded it but I don't think he'll ever bring himself to watch it.

I'm glad I watched it. It didn't really tell me anything I didn't already know though.

In response to a query up thread about prosecution of Duckenfield, I assume prosecution is very much still an option as he refused to speak to a BBC reporter when they found him in San Francisco this week "due to the ongoing criminal investigation" - if he felt immune from prosecution surely that wouldn't bother him?

Mozz PTSD was most definitely heard of back then. Several of the police working that day successfully sued S.Yorks police for what they experienced that day. This aggrieved relatives and survivors as it could be interpreted as an admission of fault yet no such claims could be made by survivors or relatives.

There are many reasons why survivors might not want to access help for symptoms of PTSD: survivor guilt ("I should just be grateful I'm alive"), the lack of a cause ever being officially found i.e.: those responsible makes victims feel they 'should' have nothing wrong with them, stigma surrounding mental health problems and treatment, etc. etc.

Sorry what I meant was services and access to those, not that people didn't suffer it.
Now we have allocated clinics and professionals working in this area, 27 years ago much less so
It was only defined in 1980