Anyone watching Deutschland 83?

[Destinysdaughter]

Am enjoying it so far. Very intriguing
premise and beautifully shot. I don't mind subtitles, find they make me concentrate more and am very interested in this period of history. Looking forward to see how it develops...anyone else? ( guess most of you are watching War and Peace tonight!)

Wow, that was harrowing. I had no idea how the brothel episode would pan out. So, do we think Schweppenstette is Martin's father? I wondered with the 'you don't understand me' and the look on Ingrid's face when she told Martin he was being used. I don't get why Martin is screwing Yvonne when he's obviously committed to Annett and the baby. Can anyone help me with that one?

I'm away next week and I've no idea whether the channel 4 catch-up service works in Europe - I know the BBC iPlayer doesn't. I can't bear the thought of missing the double finale, arrrrrgh!

gingercat yes about the virus! This show is so cleverly plotted. I really hope they make another series. Shame it didn't go down so well in Germany.

I think Yvonne is a bit of a consolation, it must be lonely being an undercover spy.

The thing with Yvonne could be to get the General's approval and prove his loyalty further, very clever if it is that. The Sanyasin were promiscuous and believed in 'free love' so if she falls for Martin/Moritz then she will have a dilemma.

It was also pointed out how stiff things were between Martin and Annett, so maybe that ship has sailed.

mornington You must be right about Moritz's father. Schweppenstette must have been on a similar mission when Moritz came along.

Yay! Found the theme tune on Spotify!

open.spotify.com/track/2Fv3LHlGOEtT6ryeLkbxaH

I'm convinced your prediction will sadly be right gingercat. Poor, poor screwed up Alex. This week to me seemed the tiniest bit far fetched but not enough to make me disengage from not being able to wait for next week's episode.

Ps: this week I have my baby (induction or epidural) - is it bad I'm hoping things go fast to be at home for the feature length final episode haha? X

It takes a while for HIV to show up in the blood (about 3 months I think), plus HIV was only discovered in 1983, but yes, it certainly looks like the plot is heading in that direction.

I thought Tischbier took the news of Felix's AIDS a bit too calmly. 1983 was a terrifying time for gay men. It was when the press was at peak hysteria declaring a 'gay plague' and hundreds of (mainly) young men were dying in isolation wards with hardly anyone agreeing to nurse them out of fear the illness was airborne and they'd catch it. It was a really, really scary time. So with all that in mind I thought both Felix and Tischbier were surprisingly sanguine about it.

Evening all!

Re: Martin & Yvonne/Annett
I think he's compartmentalising a lot! But the scene with him and Annett was v. stiff. He was looking at his grandmother's ring without any great enthusiasm just before the nurse announced Annett but he hid it away and didn't get it out when she was there. I think he's committed to the baby but not necessarily its mother any more. Apparently single motherhood has no stigma in DDR, so it's not as if he would be being socially unacceptable if he didn't shack up with Annett.

As for Yvonne, I think she helps him deal with the loneliness of his position. He has told her, and only her , the truth even if she didn't believe him. I think he was genuinely upset at the thought of her going away.

Of course! Alex's fake mystery virus will turn out to be an actual mystery virus.

I don't know if Tischbier would have had much of an idea of what was coming, would he? I can't really remember what was known in '83 - I think awareness of the awfulness was much greater in the US than Europe for a couple of years, at least.

2ManySweets All the best

I heard a programme on the radio recently about the UK government!'s Aids awareness campaign which was in 1985. Norman Fowler came out of it as a bit of a hero!!
This episode was brilliant, best yet. I loved Alex's filming of the General hostage, it was hilarious. Brilliant to get humour into something so serious, the whole thing is so well done.

Yes, you're probably right. Gay men in New York or San Francisco were at ground zero for the AIDS crisis and therefore would've been a lot more affected by it. AIDS was already well established within urban gay circles in America, whereas in Germany I'm guessing there were a lot fewer people becoming infected back in the early 1980s, because back then people travelled overseas a lot less. Plus, much of the scare-mongering and also information would've been in English and there was no internet, so the flow of information between countries would've been a lot less too.

I loved the farcical scene in the brothel too. Very funny.

I'm confused about the timings over AIDS too. I read a timeline earlier that said that the first known cases weren't reported in many countries until 1983 or later, so I'm not sure how much media coverage it would have had in West Germany. I can't find anything that says when the first case was reported in Germany though.

From memory, the AIDS panic in the UK didn't really take off in the mainstream media until 1984/5, I'm pretty sure it wasn't common knowledge in 1983. If I remember rightly, James Anderton's loathsome remarks about gay men, drug addicts and prostitutes 'swirling in a cesspool of their own making' were in 1986 by which time AIDS was very common knowledge. I think the programme makers may have been taking a bit of artistic license with the timing as I can't imagine W Germany being so far ahead of the UK, but maybe it was.

I doubt it was that far ahead, the guy who was dubbed 'patient zero' in the US died in 1984 so it's a bit of a stretch that people were able to recognise KS in Europe that early. I'm not even sure West Germany had has any cases by then, it's hard to verify.

Thanks for the Guardian synopsis Noah. My mother rang and I was desperately trying to follow the subtitles and listen to her at the same time .

Just watched this week's episode. DH and I think that Edel is now in the net and will be forced to spy for E Germany. He felt the trap shut when Martin told him Yvonne was coming for her car.

Just caught up on this week's episode; what a corker. Next week is going to be great.

I'm loving all the layers to the characters, you sort of feel sorry for Edel then he does something shitty like threatening his wife. He's a man out of his depth in so many areas.

Great thread. I now understand the role of the Chinese waitress, and how Linda's killer knew she was in the woods. I think I'm up to speed with it now! I am enjoying practising my German although I found the Edels' furious argument hard to follow. And yes yes yes to the velvet sofa. And the hostess trolley. I also like some of the women's clothes!

I lived briefly in southern Germany a few years after the wall came down but never visited the East. Went to Prague in '92, but the centre of the city was already glamming up. I spent a few hours in a suburb of Prague though, with my friend's friend, and that was still pretty grim. 9p for a litre of beer in one bar, there!

The fish scene, where the depressed, unloved housewife behaved so oddly (what an actress!) reminded me of the scene in Mad Men where Betty Draper took a gun to the birds.

I'm confused about the timings over AIDS too. I read a timeline earlier that said that the first known cases weren't reported in many countries until 1983 or later, so I'm not sure how much media coverage it would have had in West Germany. I can't find anything that says when the first case was reported in Germany though.

I couldn't find anything either, although I did find one statistic which said that in 1985, when Germany first started recording, there had been 170 AIDS deaths. Not sure how trustworthy that statistic is though. And of course, that doesn't tell you how many were infected.

I still remember those giant monoliths from the adverts. They terrified and baffled me in equal measure.

Just found that Der Spiegel first reported about AIDS in 1982 and the first case was diagnosed a few weeks after that.

As far as the programme goes, I was a bit disappointed that so much screen time has been taken up with the Edels' storylines rather than Martin's. I know that they are linked but I do find the younger Edels very annoying.

Slight derail but since the series is ending soon I wanted to recommend Kabul Kitchen on All4. Am really enjoying if, it's as well made as this and both fascinating and great black humour. Check it out! It's also in French if anyone wants to practice their French language skills...

I've started a thread about it as I really want to chat to pp about it but it's pretty dead at the moment!