Damian Lewis fans line up for Wolf Hall tonight

[Travelledtheworld]

Wednesday 21st January BBC2 Channel 4

lush costumes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11358197/Damian-Lewiss-inspiration-for-Wolf-Halls-Henry-VIII-Wills-and-Harry.html

The books are £3.66 each on kindle at present...

But the swordsman was ordered before Anne's trial I believe?

She was George, Duke of Clarence's daughter (I admit I just googled that). Just as well or she'd have been Henry's aunt which would have made it even worse...

Henry ordered the specialist executioner for Anne two days before the verdict, which suggests it was a foregone conclusion .

I really don't think she was guilty of anything she was accused of.

Yes you're right countess I got mixed up. Still shocking though and testament to how paranoid Henry had become

Don't think anyone was in doubt on the outcome, BOF!

Katie yes I think it was all arranged before Anne even went to trial. Is there any truth that Anne was led to believe she would be reprieved and sent to a convent if she toed the party line and admitted her treason? I've read that scenario several times but not sure if it's just fiction.

Oi you've nicked my line knicker

I'm fairly sure Anne's title was removed at some point in the whole condemning process - perhaps an attainder?

I am loving your name, knickerful.

Is anyone else finding they are picturing the actors' faces now we're talking about it in that context? I am just seeing Anne as she is on the TV series, and imagining her fucked-off expression at the idea of a convent.

Philippa Gregory thinks she did it, doesn't she? Or at least, chose to write that version because it was more lurid...

You're probably right countess I seem to remember that Anne tried to bestow her title on Elizabeth but she was forbidden.

I think it was in Henry's interest to keep Anne hopeful of reprieve until her trial was over so she wouldn't decide to say something harmful to him. Like repeat the zinger from brother George. She apparently put up a good defence, so cared enough to fight. Can't see her ordering her own executioner before her trial under these circs. None of her co-accused were killed by the fancy swordsman, could have been a kindness but it's one of these little details that niggle.

I think it might be the lurid option rather than the solid historical hunch, yeah.

It's funny, isn't it? We're all loving a story that is completely non-sexy in theory, but it's actually so good because she makes it completely plausible and exciting. Much, much more fun that bed-hopping Boleyns.

katie -I don't think I disagree (I don't have a view really) ... but, can you get your mind around that scenario at all? Because I can't. I found the scene with the hand in the candle chilling. I know it's a giant cliche, but it worked.

I cannot imagine knowing I would be killed. And that was happening not so very long ago in this country. We had a thread about Dorothy Sayers a few weeks ago, and we were talking about how, in the 1930s, you knew that if someone was convicted of murder, they would die.

It just seems impossible to me.

I can't get over how brave and calm people about to face a gruesome death were. It really brings home to me how strong and absolute their faith must have been.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if Anne was led to believe she would be whisked off to a convent so long as she played along. I expect Henry was bricking himself at what she could reveal during her trial if she decided to play dirty.

I remember reading that there was plenty of proof in the daily Court register that Anne hadn't even been in the same palace on the same day as the men she supposedly committed adultery with. But they weren't going to let a little thing like facts get in the way.

I suppose so.

I agree, I can't get over it. I wonder if it was faith? I have faith - probably not terribly strong, but it's done me quite nicely. I cannot imagine that world, though. And, someone like Anne I don't think is motivated by faith. So I think there must have been something else to it. But what, I can't imagine. I suppose it's the same thing that takes over when awful things happen today, and you hear about people who jumped in front of a gunman or whatever.

Sorry, depressing meanderings there!

They thought dying well and with dignity really mattered. The bit I can't get is how the final speech always includes apologising for offending the king, and saying how merciful he is. Are they all hoping for an unprecedented last second reprieve or is belief in monarchy so strong that morally they feel that is the virtuous thing to say?

Or was it just convention, and you had to say it? Though, I don't know how you would force someone, at that point.

I'm reading the TC biography by Tracy Borman at the moment, and she says that (between moments of hysteria) Anne was joking with her lady attendants that they would have a ready nickname for her: "la Royne Anne sans teste [tête]". She then " 'laughed heartily, though she knew she must die the next day'."

Why is Anne not motivated by faith? She was quite serious about reform, wasn't she? And quite strict with her ladies when they're reading love poems instead of praying.

I think the deathbed sucking up was more etiquette and the wish for no retribution on their families from Henry. Let not the sins and all that

Is there even a possibility the people on the scaffold didn't say these things but the convention is to pretend they did?

Oh, no, I meant, in contrast to martyrs. She didn't make a conscious choice to do something, in public, that she knew full well would get her killed.

BOF - wow. Yes. That is chilling.

countess - I would think almost certain.