Damian Lewis fans line up for Wolf Hall tonight

[Travelledtheworld]

Wednesday 21st January BBC2 Channel 4

lush costumes.

www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/bbc/11358197/Damian-Lewiss-inspiration-for-Wolf-Halls-Henry-VIII-Wills-and-Harry.html

She did, yes. She was banished from court because of it (which must have been her intention?)
No way would TC have allied himself with the Boleyns via Mary Boleyn, no matter how attracted to her he was.
He never forgave Anne and Norfolk for their plotting against Wolsey. He loathed them, I think.

Mary was great. Remember the ranty letter she wrote to TC once she married and was banished?
Along the lines of 'don't get me wrong, I'm madly happy with my hot new husband who worships the ground I walk on but I bloody deserve some compensation for playing no small part in my families success by shagging the king and putting up with my bitch of a sister So sort it out TC.'

Of all the Boleyns she was the sensible lucky one.
One thing I've never understood...Henry Percy was married off to Mary Talbot and they were both miserable. No children.
George Boleyn was married off to jane Rochford who he despised. No children.
Surely the point of marriage for these Noble families was the continuation of their noble line?
Not likely to happen when the couple hated each other!?
I sort of understand more with GB - his sister was queen and his niece heir to the throne so no pressure really but HP was the heir to the Earl of Northumberland! The keeper of the north. Hugely important role. Was it a knee jerk reaction to the fling with Anne (who was supposed to marry into the Irish butler family) get him married quickly and sending Anne back to hever?

I always thought Percy was pre-contracted to the Talbot woman while Anne and he were involved.
Wasn't Anne supposed to marry the Butler one to settle a family dispute over the title?
I don't know if I've read this in any non fiction book so am probably prattling, does anyone know about this?

I believe so.
The contested title was the earldom of ormonde (which I think Anne's father was given eventually)
I didn't know if the Percy/talbot marriage had been pre arranged or not. I wondered if it was a quick knee jerk reaction to the whole Anne involvement.
Such unhappiness...
Anne didn't love Henry. I think she did love HP. And he her. His life was very sad after their relationship was broken up.

So the Seymour family were down enough that they'd consider Cromwell, but not down so far that he wouldn't be able to bring them back up with some of his cleverness?

That's what I thought but I read so much fiction that I couldn't remember where the source was.
Turns out it was Alison Weir in one of the factual books but it could just have easily been Norah Lofts who I love. The Concubine is one of my favourites, love Anne's portrayal there even though I know it's more favourable than it should be

Jane was not considered valuable by her family.
She was plain, very pale and not much personality (by all accounts)
In those days a father in law having a sexual relationship with a sil was considered insest.
I think JS caught Henry's eye for 2 reasons;

1. She was the anti Anne...her complete opposite in every way. This would have made her very attractive to Henry who, frankly, wasn't too bright when it came to women :)
2. She was coached very well by her 2 ambitious brothers and Francis Bryan

She also had the backing of the courtiers who wanted a return to Rome....she made no secret of her support for princess Mary.

arf at knickerful as new measure of charisma/menace

at cutting into higher brow debate on JS

To make amends, can anyone help me with this? I've read WH and BUTB twice each, but still can't really work out why HM chose Wolf Hall as the title for her book. I understand it's JS family's seat and where, metaphorically, HVIII's future lies beyond AB, and that JS and her family have a fascination for TC... but even so it still seems a bit obscure in the whole arc of the TC narrative.

Or have I missed something vital?

So if Ann didn't love Henry .............

KatieScarlet, yes Anne was brought back from France in order to marry her into the Irish Butler family. It was while those negotiations were underway that she amused herself flirting with Henry Percy and became enamoured of the idea of being his countess. She would never have been allowed to marry Henry Percy of course.

My feeling is that the visit to wolf hall was the beginning of the end for Anne, and so also, JS and TC.
JS died giving Henry an heir.
TC made a huge mistake with the Cleeves marriage in his desire for a Protestant match.
It was his eventual downfall.
Wolf hall is where it all started.....

Here's what HM has to say re the title.

www.theguardian.com/books/2012/dec/07/bookclub-hilary-mantel-wolf-hall

Just I think HM chose it because it's an evocative name to conjure with. Also I think it very accurately describes Henry's court, which would have resembled a hall full of wolves even though they were well mannered and wearing silks and velvets.

Iirc I read an interview in which hm said she chose wolf hall as the title for her book just because she liked the sound of the words and the whole of the Tudor court seemed like a 'wolf hall'. I am paraphrasing horribly. I agree it seems a bit obscure and butb is more self explanatory once you've read the book.

Justcallm I've wondered that too - it's an odd title. I think she liked the sound of it and also knew it would make people wonder, part of her intention (madly speculating here).

Just watched Melvyn Bragg's documentary on Tyndale - very good. I knew most of the stuff, but had forgotten and was nice to 'brush up' on his role in the English Reformation. And how sympathetic Cromwell was to him.

(And I quite fancy Melvyn )

Remember the web chat on here with HM?
I don't fangirl anyone but if I were ever going to start...

Cross post! Pps say it better than me!

Yes also cross post but quite pleased that my speculative hunches turned out to be not far off the mark ;)

I would doubt that Anne loved either Henry Tudor or Henry Percy. I don't think there was much room for romantic love at court. Love was seen as a casual hobby, completely separate from marriage which was a very serious business arrangement among the nobility.

The courtiers played at Courtly Love but it was just a game to them with strict rules. I think most professional courtiers would have been slightly confused at the thought of actually being in love with their wife/husband.

If she loved anyone I would hazard a guess at Thomas Wyatt?

X posted too. But I promise I didn't read HM's piece first. I've always thought it was a very apt title for the book. She called have called it A Company Of Wolves except Angela Carter beat her to it.

Yes.
Perhaps it would be more correct to say she found HP attractive and charming.
And added to that he was the heir to the biggest earldom in the country :)

baddz I agree, the Cleves marriage was the only mis step that Cromwell ever made from a career point of view. But it was a catastrophic one. I often wonder if Henry might have tried harder with Anne if Katherine Howard hadn't been so quickly thrust under his nose by her family

Ah, that's wonderful. Thank you learned MNers. I've been wondering about the Wolf Hall title since it was published. That explains everything.

I always had a vague feeling that HM chose the title thinking she'd end the story at Wolf Hall before realising quite what a barnstormer she was onto. It feels, reading WH, that HM knew she was going to write another book well before she'd finished the first one.

Katie yy HM webchat was one of the best ones. because she answered my question