ok we all hate,the new doctor,

[Nerf]

Gutted, we are all surprised at how much we hate Peter capaldi! Was so looking forward to this! Its pants!

I saw a small clip of Father Christmas coming through the door and that was it... Did I miss something?!

It was the voiceover bit before Santa came in - don't want to post spoilers in case anyone hasn't seen it yet, but have a look on iplayer when it comes on.

Yes, Rusty, we caught that

DCs still want to know when Clara is going to be killed off. They were very disappointed when Danny didn't do the job! They have developed some very set views on companions

The Master has ALWAYS been at least a bit panto, though? I mean, Ainley and Delgado just looked "mwhah-hah-hah!" before they even said or did anything! Gomez did a great job

Can you Pm me what the voices said? I don't get on well with I player

Dd was wondering why Clara didn't hug Danny the wettest cyberman ever before she turned off his emotions.

And I said it was Father Christmas as soon as the snow blew in. I have witnesses.

See your inbox!

Pixel could she (or we for that matter) tell the difference between normal Danny and emotions-removed cyber-Danny

I do feel for the actor as I think he was told to underplay the character, because Danny was crushed by what he had done - but maybe that characterisation went a bit too bland for many?

Bland, yes that was the word I needed! Dull could be another one...

Clara said that the Dr was the only man she would never lie to. Then she did lie about being OK.
And the hug made me well up.

But Cakes she had lied to the Doctor before - about Danny, about her own intentions, so that was a lie, too. It's one of the reasons I haven't taken to Clara this past season and it makes her that much more disjointed as a character. I don't think we've quite reached the end of Clara's story yet - which will displease the DC's!

I know the hug was supposed to be an awww moment, with both people lying that they were OK and the reassuring the other that the future is bright, but the moment of the Brig and Kate was more "truthful" and had more emotional impact for me iykwim?

Pixel did you "believe" Danny taking over to save the day? I just felt he had been presented in such a bland way, it was difficult to see him having the authority to lead the others. Yes there had been hints of the super-soldier (well, the leap over the alien in "The Caretaker"), but cybers respond to a leader and I just hadn't got that from Danny, that hint of real strength and steel, if you'll pardon the pun.

In retrospect, for me, the characterisations of Danny and Clara have been the weak points of this series. I don't want to focus on the will-she-wont-she-leave story of the companion or her love life. That's not to say there can't be a strong companion story; Rose, Martha, Donna, Amy all had families, friends etc and that story was told - but not at the expense of the Doctor's story imho. The DCs have complained that this season has felt more like Clara Who than Doctor Who and I tend to agree with them.

Yes way more Clara than Doctor and not in a good way

Jenna Coleman came before Peter Capaldi in the opening credits too!

I don't think Danny needed to be a powerful commander ordering the newborn Cybermen to obey him, after all they all had human minds, they had love for the families they had lost and love for the future generations of humans who were at risk. I think they chose to follow him.
It seems to have been the flaw in the Master's plan, she forgot to factor in love. Didn't one of the news reports say something about the Cybermen not having hurt anyone?

I think the focus on Clara this series has been interesting - in a way it's a throwback to the early episodes, where it was much more about the companions than the Doctor; apart from a few stories it wasn't really until Patrick Troughton that it started to become more about the doctor, and I'd say it wasn't until Jon Pertwee that the companion became just the 'how did you do that' feed. Since then, the balance has been shifting about a bit, depending on the companion(s)...

CyberDanny had the bracelet. That's why the other cybermen followed him.

Or maybe not! I'll have to watch it again.

Yy Jux.

Yes, good! Glad I was payong attention

Just seen it again with dd who had a rehearsal yesterday and so missed it. DD is very very very very very upset that Lethbridge-Stewart's dd is dead as she was hoping she'd be the next companion. So DW people, sort yerselves out, find a way to bring that girl back from dust. She is the only one who could be considered a suitable alternative to Clara. Hear?

She would have been bloody good. Especially if Clara had actually turned out to be the Doctor.....

I know Danny had the bracelet. But if Danny and the Brigadier could both overcome their programming to protect their loved ones, then I like to think that all the other returning dead would also have the potential to overcome their programming to protect their loved ones all over the world.

Perhaps it is wishful thinking, that Danny and the Brig were not the only people to love enough to keep their promise to the future.

Pixel did you "believe" Danny taking over to save the day?

No not really. I did remark when we were watching it that he wasn't convincing me. He seemed more bothered about getting 'switched off' so he wouldn't be sad any more than anything else. And I must admit it made me remember a comment I read on another site a couple of weeks ago: "Danny Pink is not a man I'd want to follow into battle. Ever". It made me laugh .

I agree it's been too much about Clara all this series. I'm sick of the sight of her tbh! I'm also getting fed up with the constant sniping at the Doctor from Danny and threatening to slap him etc from Clara, it's not very nice at all.

I think this Doctor might be starting to grow on me but we haven't really seen enough of him to tell.

Jux - Kate is the Brig's DD, it's Osgood who is still dead.

Cakes - I think there was an element of decision in the CyberNewborns as to who to follow - they weren't evil by themselves, none of them were shooting at Clara etc even when no one was wearing the bracelet.

Oh I know Danny had the bracelet in the context of the story, but he just wasn't convincing to me as a 'leader' iykwim?

And yes, it was different to see more than the usual percentage of tin men still with feelings - are we supposed to take it that the Brig and Danny were above full conversion a bit like Yvonne Hartman back in Doomsday? Again thinking of the Brig; while some cybermen were ripping the plane apart as per Missy's instructions, the Brig was flying to save Kate. And he ignored Danny's command to fly up and burn the skies, to stay behind, look after Kate and take a shot at Missy.

Quite liked the way they tinkered with the opening credits, actually - I imagine all the "The Doctor can never be a woman!" crew were apoplectic!

And Rusty, I always defer to your depth of knowledge on this - but in the early eps there was always more than one companion, wasn't there? So the emphasis - imho - isn't quite the same as the spotlight being so completely on Clara. Do you know what I mean?

Oh lots of x-posts

And yes, was gutted when Osgood turned to dust. Bow ties are cool - bless her! Those Unit soldiers behind Missy were a bit rubbish not to notice that the highly dangerous criminal was working her way out of her handcuffs - and they didn't seem to blink an eye that Osgood was being threatened by her! They're not exactly your top notch soldiers either, are they?!

Only started watching this series because of PC. Have enjoyed it so far and ignoring all kinds of inconsistencies. Can't stand Danny but Clara has grown on me.