This Strictly Come Dancing thing - are the judges a bit racist?

[Wuldric]

So for the first time in my life, I have been exposed to this Strictly stuff. Fairly predictably it was utter crap. Brucie almost remembered all of his lines, which was good.

Then I started looking at the scores.

You tell me why this performance - Susanna Reid & Kevin dance the Paso Doble to 'Los Toreadors' - - where the non-professional swished her skirts a few times

got the same marks as this performance.
Natalie Gumede & Artem dance the Charleston to 'Bang Bang'- Where the non-professional played a blinder. That girl could seriously but seriously dance.

And then tell me that racism isn't institutional.

Wuldric - yes, it does make a difference to the marks the order they go in.

Susannah went first, at the point of her dance, several of the judges thought that was good enough to get 10 and one said 9. They put her clearly at the top of the leaderboard.

Then was Natalie's dance, they might have judged it better, but 10 is the highest score they could give, the best score they could give at that point was the same. The judge (Craig) that gave them both a 9 not a 10, for both said they were good but not perfect, and he only gives 10 for perfection.

If they had seen Natalie's dance first and given that a 10 (or in Craig's case, 9), they might have then seen Susannah's dance, though it to be good, but not quite as good so given it 8 or 9. Once they'd broken out the 10s, the best Natalie could get was the same score, which is what she got.

It is often the case some people get better scores if they have just gone after someone really shit, or worse scores if they've just been after someone great.

I genuinely am not being obtuse on purpose. I genuinely have a point here.

Let's phrase the argument in a different way:

(1) Did Natalie perform better (a priori) than any other dancer that night - yes or no.

So far you have all agreed with me that yes is the correct answer to the above question, and it is not really arguable, That girl can dance.

(2) Should Natalie receive higher marks for dancing better than any other contestant?

My understanding of the rules of the competition is that it is about what you can do rather than where you came from. Otherwise Anne Widdecombe would have been a stand out winner. All contestants are presumed equal.

I was respectful of your opinion but come on, all the contestants of course don't come in at the same level. It's television - they get a cross section of backgrounds (sports people, pop stars, actors, Politicians etc) who have different abilities from the start. It's never designed to be 100% level , regardless of race, sex, weight, or lack of rhythm that some of the contestants clearly have!

Oh. My. God.

Natalie Gumede did not get the best results because the judges felt that she performed equally as well as Susannah Reid. Therefore - remarkably - they gave them equal marks.

I know that that is not what you want to hear because you are clearly desperate to see racism everywhere for whatever reason, but that is the explanation.

Feel free to continue inventing conspiracy theories - I could do with something genuinely boring to help me get to sleep tonight

oh and OP, there has been 9 episodes of Strictly this series so far, Natalie has taken part in 8 (she had to pull out due to being ill last week), of those 8, she's had the highest mark from the judges for 6 of those weeks. If they are marking her down due to racism, they're not doing it very well...

(oh and last week, when she didn't dance, it was the other black competitor who got the highest mark)

I don't know what ldric stands for, but I'm pretty sure that the Wu in front of it is an acronym for wind up.

I personally thought Sophie was the best dancer, the the guy who did the cowboy paso. Natalie's charleston wasn't crisp/pop in her movements as I would have liked. But I ain't one if the judges!

Actually, going last is usually a good place to be put.

It's the most memorable for the voters, and also as the judges have marked everybody else already your mark is generally 'correct'.

Oh, and I don't agree that Natalie performed better than anyone else last night. I thought it was a decidedly average performance compared to what she's capable of, and she was certainly out of time with her partner on several occasions.

If anything, I think she was over-marked. Susannah's performance was superior.

Suzannah was better than Nathalie by a mile IMO....that's assuming I am allowed one.

Answers to your latest questions;

1. No, Natalie did not perform the best dance last night. To my (albeit untrained) eye Abbey & Alijaz and Susanna & Kevin were better. I am a fan of Natalie & Artem, but did not particularly enjoy their Charleston.

1. Natalie & Artem DID score the highest marks of the evening, albeit jointly.

Wudric - once they had given someone else 10s, if someone else came along with a better performance, what do you think they should do? I mean, if giving them the same high mark isn't good enough for you, do you think they should never give anyone a 10 unless they are the last to perform of the night just in case someone else does better?

Wuldric, have you had a drink or six? One equal mark for two dances on one show is not strong evidence of racism. People who have watched the show more than once are giving you the context but you are ignoring it.

Well, that's the first time I have ever reported a post on MN so thank you for that at least, OP.

And FGS stop saying that Susannah swished skirts. She danced a paso doble. As you'd know if you knew anything about dancing.

here you go OP - the scores for all the other shows - that poor Natile, only getting the top marks on 6 of the 8 shows she's taken part in, they are really marking her down

How do you respond to DontmindifIdo then Wuldric

Wuldric - as you are new to the programme, you might not realise that each judge can only give a maximum of 10 marks. So the most any dance will get is 40 marks.

Susannah danced first, the judges were impressed that a newcomer had managed to master a difficult technical dance and gave her 39/40. She probably lost a point for not being the show's best dancer.

Natalie then danced, also impressed the judges as she danced a lively and entertaining charleston so they gave her 39/40. She probably lost a point because there were some flaws in the execution of the dance.

Unless you think that some of the judges should have given Natalie marks of 11 or 12 points, or are saying that (in your subjective opinion) her dance was so absolutely perfect in every way that all judges should have been forced to give her the perfect 10 marks, then I don't really understand how you think the marking should have been done differently .

OP seems to have disappeared now the facts have been presented which disprove the theory they are peddling.

Don't we have this thread every year?

I'm here! What facts have been presented? No-one has yet explained why Natalie got the same marks as Susannah.

I thought I was very clear. Which bit is hard to understand?