The Fall

[hollyisalovelyname]

Watched it last night. Tis good, but disturbing. Gillian Anderson very good. Jamie Dornan scary. Anyone else see it?

no no, it's not that intriguing, honestly. it's just that there's no way of discussing what you and the other poster were saying earlier on without a bit of a spoiler.

Yes Aitch. The only minor gripe I had with it was that I would have liked to see a follow through on the case we saw briefly about the woman who was raped by her partner, as well as the stranger rape. It would have been an even more powerful piece if it could have shown a process of conviction for a domestic rape as well as a "stereotypical" stranger rape.

But I thought it was a really fine, truly woman-centred piece of TV, which you don't see very often. Rather than The Fall's psycho-sexual titillation 'let's get into the mind of the killer' bollocks.

yes, i agree. i guess they just had to go with whoever was prepared to be filmed. AMAZING that those two women did, i thought, but almost inevitable that they would themselves be unusual characters to agree. iykwim?

i did watch The Fall right to the end, btw, for much the same reasons as you did. they could have done SO MUCH BETTER with that cast, imo. i think it looks a great deal more sophisticated than it actually is. Alan Cubitt seems to ahve worked backwards from something he wanted to achieve rather than allowed characters to move themselves towards a conclusion.

Yeah, I thought that was probably down to a constraint of the time they had available for filming/who agreed to be filmed.

yy to The Fall looking more sophisticated than it is. I think there's also a whiff of the fact that men who write (or attempt to write!) feminist themes, even if fairly basic, get more praise for it than women do when they write about the same things. I was a bit shocked that some people thought GA's 'man-subject fuck woman-object' speech was some kind of blinding insight into the sexual double standard.

It's a bit like when David Mitchell wrote some fairly bog-standard feminist thought piece in the Guardian a while ago and got praised to the skies for it.

jeez. I put enough effort and thought and intellectual capacity into my actual life. I don't want/need that when I turn on the tellybox.

I think The Fall is bloody brilliant tv.

but then you have to say why, you see...

because I enjoy being an armchair detective / psychologist and I love discussing it on this thread with likeminded folk.

I think it is well acted, interesting, scary, twisted and full of suspense.

It really is that simple.

I thought the scene with the nail varnish was odd. And the shade is called Jezebel - is that a clue?

mmm, but you know who's done it though, so there's not that armchair detective element, it's really just 'oh look, a brunette, i can expect her to be brutally murdered soon'.
and regarding the psychology, i personally think that would be a good reason to like a drama such as this were it not for the fact that there has been so few psychological insights. the women have not responded to break-ins etc in any sort of normal, reasonable, understandable manner (the first woman, why did she have locks on her bedroom door but no burglar alarm... was she already scared/did she think she knew who would do this? that would have been interesting, but it was never explored), and the murderer's motivation is entirely missing and we're at the last-but-one episode. i get that his being such an empty vessel adds tension, sure, but he's basically a bogey man figure and the women are princesses in pretty towers, waiting to be raped. i don't understand why so many women are on here raving about that.
it is certainly tense, no question about that, and beautifully shot, and the lead performances are good enough, but the problem lies with a script that mistakes sensation for sense, and relies on characters who behave in a way that guarantees their vulnerability. ya know... if there's a murderer of leggy brunettes in your town and you're a brunette... put locks on yer windows, that kind of thing.
I don't deny it's a diversion from life, as is all telly, really... but i'm shocked that so many people think that this is a production of high quality. it's schlock-horror, all the way.

nail varnish odd, deffo, agreed. what was that about?

I thought the pace worked to good effect in the first 2 episodes but the last one it seemed off-kilter somehow. The nail varnish scene was unnecessarily long and didn't move the story or the characters any further. The killing scene was so frenzied. So much for the killer being in control and staging the murder scene to his own definition of perfect.

Thought the episode didn't work as well as the first few.

The looks the wife was giving the young mum with the baby who died were apparently to set up the "she wants to stay at work all night and where's her killer husband?" I didn't get much sense of sympathy from the wife towards the young mum though.

I thinknthenail varnish scene is about understanding his motivation: that being, his desire to create perfection, a perfect scene, linked to posing them and staging it exactly as he wants it down to the details. As GAs character said in the last episode, he's creating his own pornography.

Of course people/women leave themselves vulnerable in many ways, as there's always the belief that this won't happen to you. People do carry on their lives ignoring risk,otherwise it would be hard to function, so the belief you're safe is necessary. This is a normal reaction. If every brunette in Belfast ran outnanndputnlocks on her windows and made sure they were never alone, that would be an unrealistic portrayal of people's behaviour.

I don't think the women are being portrayed as princesses in towers at all. I think they're all being portrayed as normal women with lives getting on with them. If they all locked themselves in scared of all being killed that would portray the princess /bogey man dynamic.

I don't think it's perfect as I've said I find the killers character badly. Drawn and his relationships unrealistic, but I think the women's characters and relationships on the whole are nicely observed.

The tension is not coming from a who's done it, but a how will they catch him. The clues are there but how will they find them? I think that's well set up, creates good tension has got people hooked.

but if you have scaffolding, you lock your windows, don't you? forget about the murderer, plenty of robbers in Belfast too.
and if you know someone's in your house and laying out your vibrator, you'd pop to your sister or father's house until yours was secured?
and tbh i can't think there are that many sadistic serial killers operating in Belfast that it wouldn't give women who fit the profile some cause. Remember when the ripper was about, women were absolutely told to be on guard the whole time.
I understand what he was doing with the nail varnish, but what was GA doing? if she suspects him, why not question him? (i know you're not saying this is perfection btw, Effie, am just discussing it with you).

'I was a bit shocked that some people thought GA's 'man-subject fuck woman-object' speech was some kind of blinding insight into the sexual double standard.'

I'm not sure anyone thought it was a blinding insight, really, but it was important, IMO, because this double standard is rarely if ever challenged on TV. Equally rare is a woman being unrepentant about sex and not being punished for it (at least so far ? I'll be very cross if her one-night stand does come back to bite her on the bum).

Along the same lines, I loved the 'Have you any idea of the effect you have on men?' exchange this week; trying to cast her in the role of temptress/Jezebel against whom poor defenceless vulnerable men are helpless and must cheat on and maybe even leave their partners.

Her cool refusal to take the blame was priceless.

I think a lot of women would take heed and take extre precautions and I think a lot would be very anxious and vigilant, but I think a substantial number, probably particularly young women as the young tend to think theyre immortal nd bad stuff happens to others, would ignore or minimise the news and carry on with their life in the way they always have.

Loads of people don't have locks on windows, and don't think to
Put them on when they get scaffolding. Like me for instance. I err on the side of everything will probably be alright, and very much did so when young. So I don't think a portrayal of Belfast women battening down the hatches and quaking at home would have been more realistic then the one they portrayed. Although both reactions are normal.

I agree LadyClarice, not blinding insights by MNet standards for sure, but good to see common assumptions being directly challenged and said out loud in mainstream drama.

GAs character is not particularly likeable. Female characters so often have to have some empathetic quality to them and display some softer side in some area, but GA is a cold fish by male or female standards, she's not motivated at all by being liked, and whilst not ground breaking, it's good to see that within a female character.

I don't think I'd want to be mates with her in RL (in RL I like women who are empathetic and nice) but on TV, I love her.

'Her cool refusal to take the blame was priceless.'

Agree, it was a great moment. It's amazing to see a female character who so unrepentant about enjoying sex on her terms.

And the idea that she should be responsible for her effect on men- when booss said she didnt know her effect - As if they have no control over their own actions and are at the mercy of female allure which should should be kept in check for their sake. For Fucks Sake.

Her 'that would have been a mistake' reply was succinct and pointed. Meaning your mistake not my responsibility.

I want her wardrobe, particularly that brown silk shirt/russet-print skirt/good black coat combo from this week.

I luff her. And I'd quite like her to be my friend in RL but I'd be scared of her

Yes she looks fabulous. In just the way you'd want to fabulous too.

The high heels all day are surely unlikely though. In her role where stamina is vital you'd probably dress for comfort except for times when going in front of the press. Then you'd get your heels out.

Her hair is too glossy and 'done' as well for some one spending 18+hrs a day in police station. Maybe she's had a Brazilian Blow Dry. Yes, she definitely would.

I didn't understand Aitchs question re GA questioning him re nail varnish either, what did we miss? Question who about what?

Ooh what's a Brazilian blow dry? Sounds fabulous. Hope its not rude lol ! !

I think the heels are a status symbol; only someone of her status has the leisure to wear them. She never walks far without having a comfy chauffeured car to slink into. In the office I think she mainly sits and people run round doing things for her.

As for the hair, I reckon she has her own hairstylist hiding in one of the loo cubicles for a quick blow-dry pick-me-up or several throughout the day

PS Jamie Dornan is awfully pretty, isn't he? Woof!

I had a brazilian blow dry but my hair didn't look like GA's. I would love to know where she got that silk, no button blouse from. Twas lovely. GA's character is very cold, would love to know the 'characters' back story. Don't know any high up police officers in real life so don't know how realistic a character she is. Maybe they all have balls of steel?