The Incident Room (aka The Killing - Thread 2)

[atswimtwolengths]

Bring your notebooks, your whiteboards, your clipboards, your pens, your tape measures and your waterways maps to solve the problem of what happened to Nanna Birk Larsen.

Right. I have posted my theories on the other thread.

But I just wanted to say on here that I would really almot WANT it to be Troels (who is not the one I have named on the other thread).

I just think that this would make it a really interesting ending, which the series deserves.

I am afraid that they will make it Morten (again not the person I have named on the other thread) just because he has not been suspected yet, and that that will be a bit of a cop out (ha ha see what I did there?)

I would be disappointed if it turns out to be:
Vagn
Leon
Morten
Bremer
Holck

I would enjoy it if it turned out to be:
Troels
Rama
Theis

Having said that, if it is done well, and ties up enough of the losse ends to feel plausible, I'm not sure I'll mind.

It has to be Vagn now, I am basing theories around him and it mostly seems to fit :o

I would be peed off if it turns out to be Rie's dad or someone else hardly mentioned.

crunch that was one of my theories about the passport, further upthread - vagn keeping it as a trophy in the basement where he was going to live
great minds think alike

hab, lula and thebest - congratulations on your lovely new names

re: possible disappointment on the reveal of "whodunnit"....

imho we are all a bit spoiled because we have watched/read this type of story so many times before. we have watched a combination of simple stories done well and highly complex stories with a clever denouement,to the extent it's like playing cleudo. we think, oh that character fits into that "type" (e.g. dedicated cop who has messed up their private life because of work) and that character into that different "type" (e.g. creepy looking person) and our minds automatically categorise characters and try and second-guess the plot right from the start (hence wonderful and highly enjoyable threads like this)

in a way i wish i had never seen a programme like this before because i think it would have been a different experience without all that mental baggage.

however, nomatter who the killer turns out to be, i feel confident that the writers will have plotted and written the final episode in keeping with what and whom we have already seen. they got the second and third series, after all, so viewers in denmark can't have thought the outcome was so disappointing!

the way i think the plot is going to pan out is not very clever or tricksy, but it is in keeping with the story the writers have told. what's more that story has been told in such a high quality, rounded, compelling, frustrating, heartfelt and visually rich way that i have loved going on lund's journey with her. and to me, that could never be a disappointment.

teej - yes, good point....I think it is as much about the effect this whole case has had on everyone (everyone has learnt something) as the actual whodoneit....

I actually think it it was Theis or Troels I would be disappointed for other reasons - that it would seem too unlikely.... With Theis I don't think we have seen or been given any indication that he is other than he appears - a grieving father who did some dodgy things when younger. Equally with Troels, I think you either have to accept the suicide story or the whole thing has been a farce...
Does that make any sense?

yy blackduck completely
in fact - perversely - it was the fact that the whole city hall shenanigans seemed so melodramatic and convoluted that turned me off the idea any of the politicos was the killer!

I agree Teej and blackduck. I think the last two episodes will be as compelling as the other eighteen. But like crunchbag, I'd be disappointed if it turned out to be someone we knew nothing about. I like to think we have examined and dissected most of the main characters, and know then reasonably well.

And Teej, it couldn't possibly be Bengt (he might have to be my name change).

But, I don't think Troels is guilt free. Although he is charming, and handsome with killer cheek bones, he's also a fantastic liar and incredibly ambitious. He'll do anything to get what he wants.....

Well remembered about the toilet muminlondon (and other things you never thought you'd hear yourself say ).

I like this programme because it goes by what P.D. James calls 'the rules of detective fair play' (or something like that) where the dectectives only have as much information as the viewer. Marple/Poirot etc. drive me nuts with the 'oh but he had a second half cousin you see' business at the end.

Cheers funtimewincies and yes, it does drive you round the bend when they flush out lots of new characters at the end

(meant to be a toilet pun but I know it was a load of crap)

teej high five back

So do we think Vagn killed Meyer? He knows the hospital, has medical knowledge and probably a doctors coat lying around.

Vagn killed Meyer - possibly. Pausing the i-player it seemed to be someone in a woolly had, and Vagn never takes his hat off. Presumably there is one main hospital in Copenhagen when someone who was shot would be taken, and as an ex-medical student Vagn would know his way around there. On the other hand, wasn't Meyer's wife with him all the time, so how would Vagn have got in unseen? I still think that Meyer could just have died unexpectedly after the op - it does happen.

That's meant to be woolly hat typing too fast before.

Vagn should get together with Lund. His hat and her jumper would be very happy together.

Vagn didn't finish off Meyer. Someone posing as a doctor in a wooly hat would stand out a mile.

Vagn couldn't have arranged for Lund to be popped into the public prosecutor's car just as she was to meet Leon. (I do hope it is the public prosecutor and not a maniac in rubber gloves) Vagn wouldn't have tried to deflect attention away from the City Hall, cancelled the toilet (what was that about a sanitary ware conversation with Pernille? Was the guy fixing the toilet in the flat??) Vagn didn't run over skulking Olav, or hack into virtually everyone's computer. He certainly didn't go off to Latvia, or rent the flat out to all and sundry from Eastern Europe.

However, do you remember Troels Rie and Morten discussing the policeman lying injured in the hospital? They certainly knew.

I am convinced though, cynical as I now am about Copenhagen's fictitious local government, that there is not just one guilty party. If there is, then the crime committed by the local authority sleazies is just as shocking.

I have just discovered that Forbydelsen does not mean 'The Killing'. It means, quite simply 'The Crime'. Somehow that has made my skin creep.

How do I place my bet?

hi judith no paddy power here but you can stake your non-financial claim on predicting whodunnit here thanks to the lovely GhostofNannaBirkLarsen (aka lula)

like funtime - meant to say mum thanks for the reminder about the loo - but was the caretaker talking about times prior to the murder? i had assumed he was talking about when holck and nanna were there together in the past but if he was talking about the night of the crime that throws rather a different perspective on things

Thanks teej and GoNBL. I was thinking of an accumulator.

At this rate we are all going to need reminding about the loo, one way and another, Teej!

My money is still on a different rapist and killer - Holck and Troels, for choice. Holck was maddened by lust and Troels has said so many things that don't add up. Maybe Nanna knew too much about what went on in Latvia and so he took the opportunity to get rid of her?

hmmmm, not biblical enough?

Have just noticed a theme about water. In the first episode Pernille and Theis's washing machine floods the kitchen. Then Nanna's body is found in the canal (and later, Mette's). There is rising damp at Theis's new house. The toilet at the flat is supposedly broken. Nanna's brother finds her passport in the boiler in the basement of the new house. Any other water/plumbing references?!

Also, aloiseb - I'm with you on the different rapist and killer. It feels like whoever beat Nanna up and left the flat in such a state might be a different person to that who carefully bathed her and trimmed her nails. The bathing suggests to me someone capable of a planned, political cover-up (like so much else that is going on). Not sure how the rape (and careful use of condoms) fits into this though.

Could Bengt's profile be wrong? Could we be dealing here with multiple killers / cover-ups? I'm not sure that a psychopath would have so many political concerns or connections? Dumping Nanna's body in Troels' campaign car seems very deliberate, like the killer (or whoever dumped it) wanted it to be found. Perhaps the video card was left deliberately by the killer to lead the police to the car. Trimming her nails etc would leave no evidence but the car would implicate Troels.

Vagn can't possibly be the criminal mastermind behind it all, can he?!

I was struck at the time by the small hint of violence in the opening scene between Pernille and Theis, when the kitchen flooded - it seemed like Theis was going to be angry/violent but then it turned into an amorous embrace. Theis was the very first suspect (the video card) although he then turned out to be Nanna's father. Could he have intercepted Nanna as she was running away (though surely couldn't have raped her...somehow she fell into the wrong hands). He is clearly grieving but could this be mixed up with guilt? He had kept secrets from Pernille before when Nanna worked at the club.

Argh, need to stop thinking about this and go to bed.

When Baby Birk Larsen bounced open the panel in the basement, wasn't there sunlight (so unusual in Forbydelsenland)? Doesn't that mean that whoever put the passport there could have dropped it in from street level? Doesn't need to have been in the house. The passport was bloodstained, but there were no traces (that I could see) of blood on the floor.

Was the hand-delivered video an attempt to help or hinder Lund's investigation? It helped, and since Troels is totally smitten with our Sarah, I think he was the delivery boy. Ergo, Troels is not the guilty party. Trouble is, I don't know who nicked the video in the first place.

Was Lund just being paranoid when she accused Brick Face of getting her to shut up? Well, just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean that people aren't out to get you. She is being led a merry dance by someone, and Bremer must be behind it, surely.

Finally, I notice two camps forming in the Incident Room - those supporting the idea of a lone killer versus the supporters of the multiple perpetrator theory (cathbath and aloiseb). I'm going with the multiple theory, but where does Lund stand?

Judith, oh I hadn't noticed that - the sunlight must be significant.

The writers are very knowing about other references to other programmes and the murder mystery genre (as teej mentioned above). I think they are too clever to just have a creepy psychopath behind it all, as we would expect. Maybe they are using our knowledge of the genre to actually manipulate us.

I can't help thinking Bengt was wrong (or selctive) in the profile he gave to Lund, which she has based a lot of her investigation on. He visited Mette's father but kept it from Lund (although to be fair, she was hardly talking to him at the time). He appears to have links to Brix and doesn't seem to actually be helping Lund or particularly understanding of her drive to catch the killer.

Something that bothered me at the time... the person in the warehouse had ample opportunity to shoot Lund, but waited for Meyer instead. I thought when Lund leant over Meyer she would be shot too, but the killer left. Wonder if it was Bengt?! No wonder Lund is paranoid.

my theory on why the killer killed meyer but not lund:
a) opportunity - he had a gun in his possession and could use it; also meyer had seen his face whereas lund hadn't
b) he has plans for lund - remember the cut light cable etc

also cath it is lovely how all these themes run through the series - water, light, red, violence and love, secrets, betrayals

judith at Brick Face! yy he is trying to get her to shut up so he can close the case i reckon, in order to pacify his masters at city hall!