Big fat gypsy weddings

[LittleDonkin]

So looking forward to this!!!! I loved it last time!

Sadly Huffy, I doubt her dad would sort him out. They all said "that's the way it is", they accept it as the norm.

Joan - from the last programme - split up with her husband.

Wonder if divorce makes traveller women 'scandalised?'

Apparently not Nancy, according to the article I read. He was looked down upon for leaving her, but no shame on her.

here

that's something. I liked Joan - she looked absolutely terrified on her wedding day, poor thing.

It's not really a strict Catholic culture EricNorthmansMistress - more of an extremely patriarchal culture. The girls are socialised to attract boys, conditioned to think they are not normal and worthless as women and members of the family if they are still single at the end of their teens, feel grateful when 'grabbed', and afterwards accept DV. It's a men's world too, not just a boys' world.

the 2 young girls seemed terrified of being 'grabbed' they were saying earlier in the day tre was going to be grabbing and they'll just stick together,

then tat lad got at her and hr mte looked terrified and ran off and lef her!!
i think someone from the crew must have stayed?!?

itwas horrifuic, it was just a young girl being assaulted. plain and simple.

and it had happened to her before (and worse) and will happen again.

:(

Did they say how old Swanley was?

Swanley was 19 I think they said

i loved the first gypsy wedding show they did but this one disturbed me a bit. it seems to be a girls are seen and not heard culture where the girls are seen as nothing but cooks, cleaners and baby machines and they way their community is so closed of enforces this stereotype. i felt so bad for the other girls at that communion being showed up on what was their special day too, but then i thought about the traveller girl, she must feel horribly out of place. the whole grabbing thing is shocking. if that is what is the "custom" for a first kiss imagine how bad it could be after marriage. i don't know much about travellers but is DV and rape commonplace and hushed up? if grabbing is the start of it i fear much worse. that poor girl was visibly shaken and scared, but it seemed throughout the show that she was trying to fool herself into thinking that being grabbed was a good thing when clearly she knows better, but she has to be a good traveller girl.

How come they are not allowed to go to a carboot during the day when they are engaged (as shown) without a chaperone.... but they are aloowed to hang around in dark carparks at weddings being unwantedly groped and assaulted by lads?

this programme has left me terribly sad for the lack of choice those girls seem to have.

i have a few questions

1. do they girls have any choice in who they marry or is it just the first boy that gets to kiss them? i can't imagine them being supported in having a 4 month relationship and then deciding they didn't like that boy and then being with someone else til they found the right one.

2. do the mothers/older sisters prepare the brides-to-be for their wedding night or do they go into it oblivious to what is expecetd of them? is sex talked about, if even amongst the women or are they just expected to get on with it?

3. when cheyenne was being assaulted and her friend was walking away, was that screaming from cheyenne when her friend turned back?

4. did i hear the camera crew telling the boy who was assaulting her that it was time for her to go back in or was that montana?

The girls are there to reflect the family (which means to reflect how much control the father has over the family). They are expected to be virgins upon marriage and at the same time to be extremely attractive and excellent housekeepers - i.e. they are to make the father look good and then once married off they are also to boost the ego of the boy they marry by keeping his caravan in tip top condition - and there is never any question as to who the father of the children are (theoretically anyway). They are commodities and not seen in any role that is not mirroring the status of the men in the community.

DV is commonplace and so is alcoholism and the two go hand in hand - heavy drinking is acceptable for men but much less so for women in the Traveller community. The girl who was grabbed was probably trying to console herself that this means she has been found attractive. When girls have nothing else to look forward to in life (formal education curtailed) and when striking out on your own into a world that looks down its nose at Travellers is the only alternative to putting up with it, it's easy for the dominant half of society to dominate.

And why is this a culture to be cherished? Just feel sorry for the women and children. They suffer all the time

also,

why do the ones that live in the one site all their lives or in a house call themselves travellers when they don't do any travelling?

because of their roots, heritage, beliefs and culture. They are proud of who they are.

so it is their identity rather than how they live? they don't wish to be seen as 'settled' because their beliefs and lifestyle are not the same?

Totally fascinating programme. I found most shocking the "yeah, that's fair" answer given by the teenage girls when they were asked whether it was fair that boys could do what they liked but girls were constrained by rules.

Poor girls. Conditioned into wanting only a life of motherhood and housework. Educated only to age 11. Polishing their china every day to keep busy.

I agree with another poster who said this life is very similar to that expected of girls in fundamentalist Christian communities. So sad. No escape if their anticipated perfect marriage doesn't work out - they're stuck for life.

Most have no choice not to travel. Many would go back to it if they could do so.

Some of you are spot on about the patriarchy here. But don't forget (although maybe not shown) there are some very powerful women: the men are almost treated like children. Many men give their entire wages over to their wives and then get pocket money back, or the women decide where to travel, or even that their families will get educated (sometimes including the girls). I wouldn't be here (even on MN) without that last one - a lot of the women are frustrated with their lot and think highly of some of the values as well. It's a tough choice about which comes first.

Yes I think it is about their identity. They want to maintain their difference from the non-travelling community.

cahotica, how is it received by others in the community when a woman is the powerforce in teh family and decides that her children will be educated for example? woul dthis be supported in the community or would that family be a bit of a laughing stock having a woman at the reigns?

sorry, chaotica

You traveller or Romani chaotica? Is there a difference in the status of women? Dhs family were romanichel but he knows nothing about it.

Chaotica what you say about the men being treated like children is very Irish - old fashioned Irish but the mindset is still there. There's still Himself, around whom everyone tiptoes (the word is also used to refer jokingly to the lone bull you might see in a field, not exactly an inspiring animal where intellect and a sense of humour are concerned) and a lot of strong women. Strong enough to cope but not strong enough to break free.

maighdlin - in answer to your question, yes. And not just within the immediate family. DV from uncles for example if seen to do something wrong.