Help - my daughter and my husband's relationship at rock bottom

[sazzle1970]

Hello mumsnetters, just looking for some collective wisdom. My 15 year old daughter is in the middle of her GCSEs. They are going well and she has worked hard. But there is a huge problem in that she has told me on numerous occasions that she hates her dad (my husband), and she can't wait to leave home. She treats him with barely concealed disgust and coldness if he does anything that she doesn't approve of (from the understandable to the ridiculous... normally related to issues like picking his teeth or coughing loudly - any action or noise that is intrusive). He gets very hurt by her behaviour, and says he is really sick of being the punchbag, and I end up being the go between. When I talk to her about it, she says she doesn't believe he loves her because when she was little and she needed him he wasn't there, which is obviously very painful to hear. She's thinking back to a period of depression before she went to school, when I was at work and he was the stay at home parent for her and her brother and struggled to cope. Many years have passed since then - he's a really loving dad, and a good one - but she can't get past it. This has all come to a head since I took a demanding new job six months ago, which means I'm in London for 12-14 hour days three times a week, and when I wfh I'm totally unavailable due to the intensity of the role. I'm not sure what to do or how to help them heal the rift; my husband is mystified by it and doesn't know what to do. My new job means my husband has to carry the domestic load - and has possibly taken my daughter emotionally back to a time when she had to rely on him and he was fairly emotionally absent, so she didn't feel safe... Looking for advice on the best way to respond. Is this like a toddler meltdown, ie - don't give it too much emotional space, nothing terrible has happened, we love you, and we are just going to be by your side while you work through it; or is it something that runs much deeper that needs family therapy to sort out? Apologies for the long post...

I think this does need family therapy, tbh, though I'm with her on his habits!

She obviously feels very let down by him. Do you feel her standards are too exacting or do you think she's right?

Get her some therapy so she has someone to talk to.
Don't try to insist she gets involved in a 'family' thing. Let her get help first.

This won't get better on its own and being harsh to her will only make things worse.

Make home her safe place. Remind her to be polite to her dad, home has to be his safe place, too. They don't have to be together.

I'm not happy with 'sick of being the punchbag' talk. He needs to step back. It's about her and her needs, not him. She isn't grown up, she doesn't have her own home or income. She's dependent on you for her safety.

I think you just weather this storm and wait for her to grow up - whilst still being loving and listening parents. She’s 15. She will need time to fully understand adult behaviour and priorities.

You say he’s a good and loving dad - in what way? Does he recognise his parenting was poor when she was little? It must have been pretty dreadful for her to still remember it. Did he address it? Or is it the case that he has always been emotionally absent, but she’s had you for that role, and now doesn’t?

She sounds very emotionally immature. I agree that having personal therapy (not family) is a starting point.

I would say she needs to understand that she also can’t treat her dad like this, It’s unfair, and it’s not all about her. Unless he’s actually done something wrong, what does “struggling to cope” mean when he was a sahd?

My kids are like this. Woe is me. I feel for your husband, I really do. I get hissed at daily for breathing too loudly or swallowing a mouthful of coffee to noisily by my spiteful daughter and my lazy arrogant son has recently accused me of 'financial abuse' because I will no longer fund his disgusting vape habit when he cannot even show me or my home the most basic respect. I blame social media. TikTok is full of videos, all with sad music and sorrowful backdrops, explaining how emotionally damaged they all are by us narcissistic, abusive parents.
I was honestly shocked at some of the content on there, along with bloody Instagram. How dare they. And how insulting to those who really did grow up in the most awful of environments.
Teenagers today are so quick to attack their hard working and long suffering Mums and Dads but completely unwilling to take any responsibility for their entitled attitudes. This generation of teenagers has to be the most ungrateful generation to have yet lived, and this devil worshipping of their mobile phones is akin to a plague, a cancer spreading through the nation. The phrase 'drinking the kool aid' comes to mind.
Schools are full of bad behaviour and all we get are kids blaming their terrible upbringings.

As soon as she hits 16 tell her she is more than welcome to leave home, if she thinks this will help to heal her poor wounded soul.

My kids will both hopefully be out by the end of the year. Funny enough they both threaten to leave all the time. Telling me how awful it is living under the same roof as me, but of course they don't, as it is far too cushty living here with their punch bag slave waiting on them hand and foot.

Sorry total rant post. But you have my sympathy and you are most certainly not alone.

We have/had a similar dynamic.
I did everything for years due to his demanding job and I was sahm mainly with the odd bit of work. Then he had a breakdown and I had to return full time.
He was pretty awful to live with and was responsible for all domestic things as the job I had meant I was unavailable. This caused huge problems as she was late primary and not able to understand he was struggling but felt all the stress/depression.
A couple of years later, he was better but there was a rift and although we'd always been closer she didn't want much to do with him. He also wanted to be obeyed (which I know sounds harsh but it was more he was still treating her like a young child who should do as he asked). He really struggled with the transition.
We fell out quite a bit as I didn't want to parent like that and was trying to allow freedoms and responsibilities.
It took a while but he has made huge efforts to be calm in interactions, to be more loving, to make obvious caring choices. All of this in the face of a child who was/is saying horrible things like how she hates him, won't talk about anything, screaming/shouting etc.
She's begun to accept that he does care and made mistakes.
This is through his efforts and my conversations with her about how she's feeling and how it's valid to be angry for the way he was but that he's acknowledged he made mistakes and deserves a chance. She would also shout at me but later apologise and we'd be able to hang out/have fun etc. I said she could try to do the same for him.
I also spent lots of time talking with him about how she was feeling and that he had to make up for it by showing her care despite how she was reacting.
It's taken a long time but they are able to talk and enjoy each other's company. She doesn't hate him.
I think counselling is a really good idea.

I think you need to meet her where she is at. She is deeply unhappy and is taking out resentment on her father. That needs to be addressed and I think personal therapy with a non wallowy therapist would help her endlessly with these issues.

My eldest DD was the same with me and DH for a period of time. Her issues were valid, there had been times when life circumstances meant we were not the best parents for her at times but a non wallowy therapist was enormously helpful at putting that into perspective and helping her process those feelings.

He made it clear when she went in there that if she was looking for endless validation and no solutions then he was not her person and in a vert short timeframe he put context and perspective on her thoughts and helped her to realise we were just people who made mistakes too and that generally we had her best interests at heart to help her develop and grow to her full potential. We have a fantastic relationship now and she is so much happier.

She's bullying her father. You need to treat it as you would if she was bullying someone her own age. She can't keep getting away with it.

“Spiteful daughter” and “lazy, arrogant son”?! Gosh you don’t like them at all, do you. Perhaps they can see that for themselves and that’s part of why they behave like they do?

The teenage years aren’t easy. You hate the phones but you gave them smart phones and allow them to use them as much as they do?

OP - I agree with a PP who said to get her therapy first. She clearly needs someone she can talk to.

Thankyou so much for your speedy responses. If I show any empathy or care towards my husband she feels totally betrayed; it's so hard to know what to do for the best and how to BE. I fear that instead of being a passive person in all of this, I am inadvertently fanning the flames by not offering much support to my husband (who I agree, is the grown up and needs to take this on the chin more than he is doing at the moment, but who is genuinely hurt and baffled by her coldness). I tell her how much he loves her, and that he had a time when he was struggling when they were little, but she just says: he might love us now but that doesn't make up for it. @titchy he does recognise that he was totally unable to cope with parenting when he was depressed. He just had very little resilience, so would crumple if things didn't go according to plan which of course they don't when you have two children under three at home. I think it's fair to say he was emotionally unavailable to anyone during this time of collapse. But, he got therapy and anti-depressants, and things did get better. It must have been so awful for the children, but it was a limited period; I was working but not horrendously long hours. tbh I think I probably do still harbour some pain from this time too 😔it was very difficult. But I don't want to tell my daughter that in case it creates more of a rift. @MounjaroMounjaro she really does overreact in her responses to him. But this is her reality, however painful it is for everyone else. I like the thought of 'weathering the storm' @Screamingabdabz this gives the whole sorry situation some perspective.

Get through the GCSEs without rocking the boat. Once they’re finished, you and she need a good talk and she needs to know that there are basic ground rules about how she treats her dad (unless there’s more to this that she hasn’t told you).

Does she ever behave in any way like this to you?

taken my daughter emotionally back to a time when she had to rely on him and he was fairly emotionally absent, so she didn't feel safe... This sounds like she has good reason, has he ever talked to about it? Why was he this way, and has he changed?

This is exactly what he feels, and it is really making him very down and upset. Earlier today he went in to see her and told her he thinks she's wonderful and how much he loves her but she won't listen. Then I went in... and she was really upset. I wonder if sometimes by giving it too much air time and revolving around her emotions in the way that we do we are just making it worse. Her younger brother is autistic so has been very demanding in the past...

Your husband needs to speak to her and take some accountability for how he’s been with her. Until he addresses it your daughter is unlikely to change how she feels about him. I wouldn’t do anything drastic until she’s finished her exams.

I think you need to help your dd understand poor mental health as an illness. Just as someone who had cancer or a broken leg needs help and support so does someone with poor mental health, it’s just that this isn’t a “visible” illness .

yeah it probably was a shit time having a parent wih poor mental health but your dh should be admired for working through it, talking about and seeking help,

does she punish you for working such long days or does she just put everything onto her dad? You really need to show that you are on your dh’s side too. Support him when your dd is being nasty towards him.

I wouldn’t ever allow our children to talk badly of dh and vice versa. We show a united front .

@easipeelerie she can be cold towards her brother and also to friends who she feels have been disloyal... not usually with me. But it's her dad who she is really the worst towards.

Has he ever apologised to her, properly and fully?

YOU tell her how much he loves her - does he tell her? Does he show her in his actions? Does he turn up for concerts, matches? Pick her up from activities, friends? Buy her favourite chocolate bar? Remembered that she had a geography test she was worried about? Has he apologised for being emotionally absent? Has he acknowledged to her how devastating and frightening that must have been for her?

@2chocolateoranges thankyou this is helpful. I don't know when the right time to bring this up would be but I'll try and find it. She takes everything out on her dad... when I get home she tends to become cold towards him, not me - and he often says that she's been fine until the minute I walk in.

...my husband (who I agree, is the grown up and needs to take this on the chin more than he is doing at the moment, but who is genuinely hurt and baffled by her coldness).

I don't think I'd be able to 'take this on the chin', in his position. And if anyone posted on here that their child was being so unspeakable unkind and cruel to them, they'd be inundated with support. When your child, who you love with every fibre of your being, talks to you this way, it must be devastating.

But yes, you need to be getting her to a counsellor asap. For both their sakes.

You see, he did something positive by telling her how much he loved her, then immediately focussed in on how her lack of response made HIM feel. It’s all about his feelings. He told her, she heard it. End of. He’s just made her feel that he only said it so that he’d get a nice response. Not because it was true.

He does tell her; he does pick her up from activities and friends houses; he gives great advice when friendships are rocky; he shows up to everything. She loves music and so does he so there is a connection there (we only know this though because we find songs he's recommended on her spotify lists). But I don't know if he has ever fully apologised and acknowledged that time and I will ask him.

So when he have badly it was understandable and should be forgotten - but when she behaves badly he’s hurt.

i hate it when people apply double standards to parents and children.

if he feels bad now imagine how bad she felt when she was a vulnerable small child.

great that he’s moved on from it - she hasn’t which is hardly surprising given it’s a really crucial stage of life