Help - my daughter and my husband's relationship at rock bottom

[sazzle1970]

Hello mumsnetters, just looking for some collective wisdom. My 15 year old daughter is in the middle of her GCSEs. They are going well and she has worked hard. But there is a huge problem in that she has told me on numerous occasions that she hates her dad (my husband), and she can't wait to leave home. She treats him with barely concealed disgust and coldness if he does anything that she doesn't approve of (from the understandable to the ridiculous... normally related to issues like picking his teeth or coughing loudly - any action or noise that is intrusive). He gets very hurt by her behaviour, and says he is really sick of being the punchbag, and I end up being the go between. When I talk to her about it, she says she doesn't believe he loves her because when she was little and she needed him he wasn't there, which is obviously very painful to hear. She's thinking back to a period of depression before she went to school, when I was at work and he was the stay at home parent for her and her brother and struggled to cope. Many years have passed since then - he's a really loving dad, and a good one - but she can't get past it. This has all come to a head since I took a demanding new job six months ago, which means I'm in London for 12-14 hour days three times a week, and when I wfh I'm totally unavailable due to the intensity of the role. I'm not sure what to do or how to help them heal the rift; my husband is mystified by it and doesn't know what to do. My new job means my husband has to carry the domestic load - and has possibly taken my daughter emotionally back to a time when she had to rely on him and he was fairly emotionally absent, so she didn't feel safe... Looking for advice on the best way to respond. Is this like a toddler meltdown, ie - don't give it too much emotional space, nothing terrible has happened, we love you, and we are just going to be by your side while you work through it; or is it something that runs much deeper that needs family therapy to sort out? Apologies for the long post...

Just wondering whether her difficulty in forming friendships as a teenager could be partly a symptom of her ASD and maybe a few of the things that she is currently blaming on her Dad might be due some reassessment if she gets a diagnosis. I know that's more of a medium term thing though so wishing you all the best in riding it out until GCSEs are through and maybe some useful counselling in place.

Sounds like your daughter has probably seen something on social media and ran with it. The MeMe’s that need constant validation and blame their shortcomings on those doing their absolute best for them, they don’t see the parental side of it. Nothing is really good enough for them and they openly blame others. She’s 15 and not remotely mature enough. So what, your husband dropped the ball, who can honestly say they have been the perfect and ever present parent? I know I can’t and I shouldn’t be held accountable by a child for my mistakes. Given your DH realises what he did in the past and has worked hard and turned it around, your DD sounds like she has a huge stick up her arse and needs to grow up. You should be backing your DH and when she gets on at him, show her a united front. Show her that you can’t treat people like this. With you working long hours she’s using him as the punchbag because you’re not available and she’s having free reign. This isn’t fair in either of them. Your DD needs help to unpick all of this. Having your DH exposed to that daily when he’s trying his best must be nothing short of devastating and it will be taking a huge toll.

I wonder if the insecurity as a young child has given her borderline personality disorder? It can lead people to completely turn on someone suddenly if they feel they no longer need them or love them. I have it and it is caused by childhood trauma. Therapy is key.

What makes you think she is immature in OPs posts? She could be really astute and standing up for herself rather than being a doormats that far too many women on MN unfortunately end up as. AND something must have happened when she was younger for that lack of trust. DH couldn’t cope looking after 2 kids full time? Not good enough.

No need to apologise. This is actually pretty common, even though it's not really spoken about. Your daughter is going through a really intense phase of her life, with exams so it's normal that she's going to be putting these stresses on family members and bringing up past issues. We had a fairly similar issue with my daughter, but she was really angry at me (even though she didn't have a concrete reason).

I think family therapy is a good step if this doesn't imporve in a few months, however while exams are happening, I think it's best to give her a bit of space. Your husband can show up for her in ways that are small, but show that he's there. The worst thing he could do right now is pull away and reinforce her past fears.

Another thing I'd recommend is this app called luna (_https://weareluna.app/?utm_campaign=mumsnet_share&utm_id=1) because it's made for teens and helps with wellbeing and some of the things you've described.

Your daughter can ask a question to an expert about her situation and get advice, to help her feel less alone. BUT it's still completely trusted and age-appropriate, and she can read articles about managing parent relationships, made my experts. I stumbled across it on instagram and genuinely couldn't recommend it enough.

My daughter is definitely a lot less angry with me and feels more in control of her wellbeing, but it's still her own private thing.

Hope this helps a bit.

a time when she had to rely on him and he was fairly emotionally absent, so she didn't feel safe

What did this actually look like? Did he lay comatosed in bed for days whilst she roamed the streets in a saggy nappy looking for food or was he just a bit absent minded when she asked him things-I feel this information is relevant here. Apologies if I've missed this info.

I agree with this. I wonder if she would feel the same towards him if he’d been ill with cancer or broken bones rather than a mental health issue illness? She needs help understanding mental health perhaps. But I wouldn’t have much more tolerance for the self-centred attitude and bullying behaviour.

There seems to be a lot of mocking and derision of the daughter here which is showing a total absence of understanding of child development, impact of ACES and trauma on children.

I don’t think it’s the teen who needs help understanding mental health here.

It’s absolutely ok to have some understanding of what might be behind this and seek some support but also keep strong boundaries around acceptable behaviour.

What’s not ok is just dismissing everything this child might have experienced and label her as a brat and a bully.

This, and shocked at some of the responses (not really!). Trying to imagine a mum posting about her depression and being told
-terrible selfish parent!
-why haven't you apologised?!
-you need to let them feel theses feelings.. and accept cold, rude behaviour.
She definitely sounds mecentric and deep into this with the expectation that everyone must wall on eggshells around her, she can do/say what she whats with impunity, but expects perfection from others..

The dad sounds ND as well.

@CaptainFuture Just my personal experience, but I do think it’s appropriate to apologize to your teenagers/adult children if you went through a period where you weren’t parenting well due to your poor mental health.

I’m diagnosed with GAD and the summer before I got help and was eventually diagnosed, my anxiety was through the roof and I somewhat spoiled a family holiday due to it. My DC sensed that something was wrong as I wouldn’t do certain activities and they heard me crying at night, etc. They haven’t forgotten it even though it was nearly 10 years ago.

They’re 20 and 16 and a few years ago, I did explain the situation and apologized to them. I assured them that if I ever felt unwell again, I would seek help sooner. I think they needed that reassurance and it also opened up conversations about what to do if you’re not feeling mentally well, I.e., get help before you spiral. I think (hope) that they trust me to do this now and also know that they should seek support if they feel unwell.

Sounds like your daughter has probably seen something on social media and ran with it

I agree with this. There’s probably some dumbed down concept of the importance of early attachment and your daughter has decided that your husband’s acknowledged struggles have contributed to her woes.

This has all come to a head since I took a demanding new job six months ago, which means I'm in London for 12-14 hour days three times a week, and when I wfh I'm totally unavailable due to the intensity of the role

I think this is the real issue. Your daughter is spending more time with your DH, wants to spend time with you and is rejecting him and wants YOU to reject him so he won’t be there and you will. It’s very telling that she is upset with you because you’re not telling your DH to leave. And also that she seems fine with him until you come home, and then it’s all performative angst.

A psychologist for her may be useful, but with the focus on her appreciating that she can’t dictate how other people’s relationships work. And that expecting that nobody ever err in their relationships with her is unrealistic. She’s only a few years away from adulthood, best she learns these things now, rather than expecting everyone to do always what she wants.

The fact that she seems to behave in the same way with everyone else in her life (except for the OP)? Very immature. And yes she may have exams but they are her exams OP: the world cannot revolve around her.

Stop giving this so much airtime. I would have one last conversation with her and say that her behaviour is unacceptable. That her father may have struggled but he actively sought help and fixed the situation, and has since apologised and that needs to be the end of it. She does not get to mistreat someone because they were struggling. She does not get to bully him in his own home. And if she wants therapy to handle her feelings (just like her dad did) then you can find that for her. And then after that conversation I would not refer to the past again but would treat every new negative interaction on its own. As in if she’s rude to him, tell her to stop being rude, find suitable punishments, send her to her room or whatever works for you.

The fact that she is attempting to blame her dad for her inability to make friends makes it clear that she is struggling and looking for someone to blame. That is bullying.

I am by no means ancient (in my thirties) but I must say that I find all this emotional chow chow increasingly ridiculous. And absolutely fuelled by social media. Yes, life is hard. People can be shit. But you are doing your child no favours by not teaching her that she does not get to trample over the needs, wishes and happiness of three people because she is struggling with something. You are the adult here. And I cannot believe you are even considering leaving your job because of this.

I strongly agree with this. When my ds was 7 I had breast cancer and I was physically and emotionally struggling for a while, I was a mess. I would be devastated if my ds was holding that against me now!

Your dd has no idea about how isolating and difficult it can be for a sahp and lots do struggle! She's young and has no life experience, that's not her fault but it's important that she tries to understand.

Well you are not wrong. I see A LOT of this content and I don't even go looking for it. And I am an adult!
If he is a good dad then your daughter is being pretty nasty to him. Having said that, she probably does need some therapy.

I think the worst thing he can do is react emotionally. She is lashing out at him because he has shown he time and again that his emotions rule the house. This would've felt unsafe and unstable for her as a younger child, having the main parent present everyday behaving like this. She is a teenager and is going through a hard stage of life, he needs to step up and be a rock for her. She is pushing and pushing because he doesn't feel like a stable and safe place to her. He is a sore spot of uncertainty that HE caused over the years. He may be trying but she will still be able to feel him reacting with sadness and being down. Like he is the same as he was and mum is just making excuses for him (in her teenage mind). He needs to accumulate years of being stable and consistent now, to win her trust back. Be the dad, not the needy man that mum needs to coddle.