Help - my daughter and my husband's relationship at rock bottom

[sazzle1970]

Hello mumsnetters, just looking for some collective wisdom. My 15 year old daughter is in the middle of her GCSEs. They are going well and she has worked hard. But there is a huge problem in that she has told me on numerous occasions that she hates her dad (my husband), and she can't wait to leave home. She treats him with barely concealed disgust and coldness if he does anything that she doesn't approve of (from the understandable to the ridiculous... normally related to issues like picking his teeth or coughing loudly - any action or noise that is intrusive). He gets very hurt by her behaviour, and says he is really sick of being the punchbag, and I end up being the go between. When I talk to her about it, she says she doesn't believe he loves her because when she was little and she needed him he wasn't there, which is obviously very painful to hear. She's thinking back to a period of depression before she went to school, when I was at work and he was the stay at home parent for her and her brother and struggled to cope. Many years have passed since then - he's a really loving dad, and a good one - but she can't get past it. This has all come to a head since I took a demanding new job six months ago, which means I'm in London for 12-14 hour days three times a week, and when I wfh I'm totally unavailable due to the intensity of the role. I'm not sure what to do or how to help them heal the rift; my husband is mystified by it and doesn't know what to do. My new job means my husband has to carry the domestic load - and has possibly taken my daughter emotionally back to a time when she had to rely on him and he was fairly emotionally absent, so she didn't feel safe... Looking for advice on the best way to respond. Is this like a toddler meltdown, ie - don't give it too much emotional space, nothing terrible has happened, we love you, and we are just going to be by your side while you work through it; or is it something that runs much deeper that needs family therapy to sort out? Apologies for the long post...

he does recognise that he was totally unable to cope with parenting when he was depressed. He just had very little resilience, so would crumple if things didn't go according to plan which of course they don't when you have two children under three at home.

So she was under 3 at the time and remembers it? That's quite unusual to be fair, what does she remember about it in particular? From what you've said it actually reads a bit like she's trying to get back at you a bit via him.

I know 😥and I know I can't make it better. I am trying to find another job which means I won't be so absent, but this isn't a fast fix.

If this has all started since you changed jobs and are less available I would actually be wondering if this is misdirected anger towards you? Maybe she sees getting angry at her dad a safer option because he has always physically been there?

Yes, my husband I have thought about this. And thought that perhaps the only way to fix this is for me to be at home more than I am at the moment.

But that's easier said than done.

The "you dont like them at all" is one of the crappies Mumsnet line, people love repeating it. Maybe time to come up with a better phrase.

Maybe it has not crossed oyur mind OP loves her kids but dislikes what they became? There are plenty of selfish, horrible kids out there that are the way they are not because of anything their parents did.

Apologising suggests blame. I don't think anyone should be blamed for having mental illness.
OP's DD is under stress and the fault lines are showing. She is lashing out at DH because she mistakenly thinks he's responsible for her unhappiness- and refusing to see any point of view other than her own.
I think she is unfair to blame DH in the first place. But she needs to realise she can live her life feeling aggrieved for misplaced reasons... spend her days berating her DF for something he cannot undo.....or she can decide to move forward.
I think you need to tread a fine line between validating her FEELINGS whilst making it absolutely clear your DH is not to blame.

How old was she when she and her brother were left alone him and for how many years did this go on?

that sounds hard

teenagers arnt always great fun to be around

my daughter had a poor relationship with her dad at about age 14 , they would but heads over anything and everything.

I would say ours has swung the other way now , and at just shy of 18 she gets on well with her dad, but seems to be quite snippy with me

I suppose the balance between letting them know that rudeness won’t be tolerated and picking which battles is the trick- it’s not something I have found the balance with !

if she’s part way through her exams tensions will be running high

He's out with the dog now feeling utterly defeated, I'm asking advice on mumsnet, daughter in her bedroom revising but sniffing and refusing to speak to me as she feels totally betrayed because I told my husband how upset she was this morning (he was working through some poetry with her for her GCSE, and it all went wrong after she felt dismissed and not listened to. I went in to her room to see her and she was really tearful, saying that he didn't think she was good enough... I was cross with him for not being careful enough during her exams, he went in to apologise, she got incredibly upset). I think I need a wine.

Sounds like she's finding excuses to be horrible. You sound scared of her OP, don't give in to emotional blackmail.

If she is deep in mental health tick tock perhaps she can be encouraged to show some retrospective empathy to her dad when he was suffering from depression?
Sorry you are dealing with this - it sounds very stressful.

I am also a bit puzzled about how much she can remember if she was under three at the time. It is a key development stage that could have impacted her attachment with him though.

I agree with previous poster that it sounds like she needs some education on mental health, reframing it a bit so she realises he put work into getting better. Normal advice would be for him to spend quality time with her without expectation for deep conversations to try to reconnect but maybe not in the middle of her exams. I wonder if on some level she’s worried about her own mental health and trying to distance herself from her Dad?

I would also probably be really clear with her that it’s fine to express her feelings but it’s not acceptable to be nasty to family. And find her a counsellor for someone objective to speak to.

Op, you said your son is autistic but has your daughter been assessed? I think her upset is genuine but maybe not 'typical'.

Not sure i agree with this. She clearly has a problem with him - he is involved, and to heal their relationship will need effort and understanding by both of them. if she has therapy alone, dpesn't it send her the message that she is the problem rather than a relationship that got into difficulties in the past?, and is affecting her now. I think her father and she should have therapy together to sort out the problem between them. he needs to take responsibility for what has gone wrong.

I’d start looking into some family therapy/counselling for them to start after her exams are over.

This is an issue that your DH and your DD need to work through and resolve- you’re doing your best, but personally, I think that they need to talk this over with a professional whom they can speak to separately and together. You can’t fix everything, OP, and you’ll wear yourself out trying. 💐

I do understand your DD’s resentment towards your DH as my Dad has had lifelong MH issues and seriously let me down multiple times as a child. I’ve had to decide to forgive him or be estranged. I’ve chosen forgiveness, because I realize that he was ( in his case always will be to a greater or lesser extent) ill.

It’s v. difficult for a teenager to accept this, hence I think some counselling would be helpful.

OP I feel for you. Being in the middle can be exhausting. I can't help but feel there is more going on here. I don't think it is fair or realistic to ask your DD to be the 'bigger person' and 'let it go' when she is really still just a child. I don't agree with other posters who think she is being entitled or stroppy. She sounds like she is in pain. And yes so is your DH but he is an adult. My suggestion is for your DH to seek therapy/counselling to learn to deal with his own guilt and triggers. Then you can step back and get on with your job/life and stop trying to fix this (which isn't your job btw). Oh and age 15 is pretty awful. She may also mellow with age. But for now she needs to be validated and supported.

The dynamic in this family seems to be the father's feelings are a key priority. Has he tried not reacting so emotionally and just being there for his DD?

I agree some therapy might help, for the DD on her own or for her with her dad.

I can’t give any advice on some of the issues you have but I will say that I was a child/teen whose mum worked incredibly long hours and it really affected me. I know that I’ll probably be flamed for this on here because so many people have demanding & stressful jobs & feel they have no choice because they need the money but as a child none of that matters. I just wanted my mum to spend some time with me. I would prioritise that above everything else (I know you said in a pp that you were looking for another job.) It still affects the relationship I have with my mum now even though we’re very close.

Hi @Summer92x I don't think she does remember this time; it was the most intense and that's what I remember, but the depression has returned sporadically and I have always been the major breadwinner. I went freelance when my daughter was 6 and that was when things really became more stable mental-health wise for my husband. I took an office job again in 2018, and my husband was made redundant. Covid saved us really as I could work from home but as teh demands of work have picked up the family dynamic has definitely been impacted.

thanks @NewtonsCradle agree with this, and she is being assessed for ASD. Nearing the top of the list thank heavens

@sazzle1970 you all need family therapy to address this with a neutral person who can ask the right questions. We all have a different way of expressing ourselves and a therapist will help translate for everyone.

she might not be handling her feelings well nor really understand them herself - never the less her feelings are valid. She might also be ND and struggling with masking her feelings regarding the change in your hours etc again.

rather than changing jobs etc I’d seek outside help first. Good luck.

I was your dd growing up @sazzle1970 and I agree with pp, she needs counselling.

My dad is an alcoholic, he is sober and has been for 20 years, but even at nearly 45 I have to force myself to maintain a relationship with him.

As a 15 year old, I hated him so much. I found trying to fake liking him really hard. Especially because I could see how he had always been with my kid sister and it was so different to how he was and is with me.

Be gentle with her. Don't come down hard on her, especially whilst she had her exams, she is hurting. She is trying to process being failed by 1 if the 2 people who are meant to be there and have her back at all times.

She is at an age where she is gaining an understanding for relationships. She will be noticing the difference between her relationship with her dad and those her friends have with theirs.

Your DH needs to back off. He needs to stop being angry at her. He caused this. Not deliberately, but his actions and choices have caused this issue. And I suspect he has also refused to acknowledge or own it and has behaved in a way that suggests your dd should just get over it.

You dd is going to need time and your dh needs to find a way to make it up to her and prove he has accepted his behaviour, owns it and gets better.

I am 45 in a fee weeks and I am still hurt and angry towards my dad. Having my own child has given me a different perspective but I also know I would NEVER treat my child the way he did me.

Be her champion, make sure that dh is not visibly angry towards her or it will escalate.

Get her support both separately but also as a family.

Take some time off and be available to her while she gets through her exams. Then get her counselling and family counselling /mediation. everything needs to be out on the table and discussed because you all need to live together at least for the next couple of years.

Her dad should be working to heal the damage he did when she was young. It’s a long, hard process.

I did notice that you mentioned an autistic sibling. Is there any chance your daughter is autistic as well? It often presents very differently in girls. One of the common characteristics is that we can be very rigid in our thinking about how people should behave. Autistic women often set very high standards for ourselves and don’t understand why other people don’t do the same. A parent failing in their responsibilities is an easy thing to develop obsessive spiraling over. I’m in my 50’s and I still have to stop myself when I start going into an obsession spiral about my, admittedly abusive by anyone’s standards, father.