DD13 is unparentable!

[Xmasxrackers]

Please help! Im honestly at my wits end!!!!

My DD is just unparentable! She doesn’t care about anything, she is just vile to me and her brothers (3 and 8).

She started high school in September after coming from a small primary school and is only just making some proper friendships, and mum died 2 years ago which they were really close so I can only assume these things have contributed (her school have given her counselling and bereavement therapy).

Shes dirty and doesn’t care about her personal hygiene, she steals from me and her dad, if she misbehaves she does not care about being punished and basically does what she wants. If there’s only me and the boys in the house she spends the whole time screaming and shouting, throwing things, calling me vile names etc. if I say no to her. I have a DH who she wouldn’t say boo to a goose to, and she has her dad who doesn’t believe me at all. I have suspected ADHD and she is in the process of being referred. I’m at a loss. I can’t parent her effectively because she doesn’t listen or care about anything boundaries I put in place. I have tried the nicey nicey approach and took all her chores off her in case she was just stressed but mostly because she wasn’t doing them anyway. This behaviour has been there since before my mum was even poorly but it has escalated to a point where I just can’t. Anyone out there in the same position who can advise? Her dad will not entertain having her any more so I can have a break

It was this! That I was referring to.

I'd also recommend as another did naomi fisher. Supportive, positive approaches for when things are tough. The challenging behaviour whilst really hard, is not the problem...it is what these kids have going on under the surface which needs help.

Parenting a PDA teen dd here. And it is hard going! Self regulation and Compassion for them and us is key

@LadyQuackBeth although I'm pushing regards the ND factor, I do agree massively ref the low demand parenting. It does help if you know they're definitely ND/ PDA. But at what cost can this come at?

I really think there can be a cost. I think if you confuse low demand with no accountability, that's dangerous. It's incredibly difficult and I don't think any of us are quite there yet with our absolute understanding of exactly what to do for the best.

The first step is knowing exactly what you're dealing with. An assessment is therefore absolutely essential really. Rule it all out and then you know or you rule it all in and you know. It's a no brainer. The problem is accessing it, resourcing it and fighting the 'professional gaslighters'. No easy task at all on top of all this crap she's dealing with.

She may have ADHD but I doubt that ADHD is the cause of the behaviors you're seeing.

There's something else going on. She needs an assessment urgently.

It sounds like a cry for help.

Re being dirty and not caring about personal hygiene- sounds like she is hiding her body, and for me alarm bells for abuse are going off. I wouldn’t rely on her telling you when you ask. If she was abused, she might also have been blackmailed, threatened or she might feel shame or guilt. If it’s abuse, it might be online.

Re the dad moving to Cyprus: how do you know this? It sounds like you only know through her? Has he not discussed this with you? How did you react when you heard? (Personally, I can’t imagine not being angry and upset at the thought of the other parent wanting to move my child abroad). Could it be that she is angry at her dad for wanting to move away and angry at you for not preventing her from being taken away?? Or angry at both of you for not sorting this out between the 2 of you? It sounds like an awful lot of responsibility to place on a 13 yo shoulders to say no to her dad for moving.

13 is like second toddlerhood. Afraid of baths, eat snots, scribble on walls and squabble with peers. Impossible to reason with. Like being 3 all over again.
Have to ride it out.

I wrote a very similar post about my dd at that age. She was smashing tvs, throwing chairs, death threats and screaming ect. It's was adhd and the best thing I have found is to ignore which is so hard. Leave the room or even the house. Dd is now 15 and a lot better. She's on hormonal contraception which seems to help even her out also adhd meds. She has her moments where I'm still the most evil person in the world but I don't rise to it. Dd likes the dopamine hit from getting a reaction to whatever she's saying/doing. We went from fearing every day to maybe 3-4 days a month.

Dd lost her grandad just before this happened.

Sorry if this causes you any anxiety, but just so you’ve considered everything, has anyone asked her if she’s experienced any form of abuse? A coercive relationship, sexual exploitation? abuse from an adult? Anything she might be finding hard to put into words but is trying to tell you through her behaviour? It’s not as simple as ‘this sign means X’ but it’s best to keep a really open mind as to what is going on for her. Is there another adult, parent of a friend or a relative who she has a good rapport with who might try talking to her for you?

You know, not everything is down to mental health and counselling. I say that as someone working in this area.

Know what I would do? Stop treating her, stop taking her on days out, stop involving her, and stop cooking for her, stop doing her washing.

Lock up everything valuable and monetary.

Label her own dishes, her own food, and her own washing detergent.

Lock up everyone else's dishes and utensils so she cannot use them.

If she's hungry; tell her to make herself food and leave it at that. Leave things she can make that are safe and suitable for her age.

If she runs out of clean dishes to use because she hasn't washed her own; Just shrug and say, "Sounds like a you problem."

Take her siblings out and let her know where you're going and to only call in an emergency.

Do not challenge her, do not argue with her, do not get into the what and how with her.

Sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

If she asks why she is being treated like this; "Oh? Do you want to hear what I have to say? And do you actually care?" .

It sounds cruel, but a dose of humble pie and a shock can knock some sense into them.

As others have said, OP definitely look up PDA Autism, it sounds like it might resonate with you. Start with the PDA Society.
It's bloody difficult, stay strong, there's help out there x

Thank you so so much. I thought I’d get so much hate posting this. Of course I haven’t given up on her really but I’m those moments I am just at a loss. She’s back to school today and is actually much calmer for having her routine back. I love this girl so bloody much, she’s hilarious and kind when she’s not overwhelmed and in these moments.

I will speak with school again tomorrow (she has been given more intervention sessions at school and her counselling sessions start after Easter). You have all made me feel a little less alone.

Have a look into NVR training. It's Non Violent Resistance and can work really well. It's bout taking back parental control in a non aggressive way, wholst not accepting the child's aggressive behaviour. Getting them to come up with solutions (at the right time, not in the moment) etc.

She sounds exactly like me it’s almost uncanny and I have ADHD and should have been medicated and heavily supported.

Following

Just wanted to say, I have a 14 year old with autism. She is horrible. She says awful things I couldn’t repeat and the only thing that seems to work with her is disconnecting her from her phone for a long period of time. But then she is straight back to saying disgusting things like how she is going to kill us. I wish she could live life without a phone but it’s not really feasible (she even needs it to do homework to log onto her school laptop!). I really hope things get better for you, hopefully once her hormones mellow she will be more manageable. I had several friends who really took their hormones out on their parents at that age, then they got interested in boys and seem to chill out 🤞🏻 for the both of us

It’s hard to parent teenagers and you will always get the brunt of it, You are her safe person, but if she picks up you not coping well in parenting her or taking things her behaviour personally, that will only exacerbate things, it’s a vicious cycle.

You need to find ways to cope, put boundaries in for yourself and manage your stress, find your own counselling support, if you don’t already have this. As a PP post, come from that you never parented a teenager before and need to build the skills.

If you have genuinely decided at the age of 13 she’s “un parentable” at 13 you are doing both of you a disservice. It’s all down hill from there, “if you decide you can or can’t you’re right”; first and foremost you need to challenge this mindset.

As PP, I would be worried something more is going on, bullying, abuse. She may be open about many things, yet these carry a lof of shame. You are already exploring neurodiversity which could be helpful, but there weren’t any earlier concerns.

When I lost my grandparent I felt a loss of stability obviously the timing for her age wise was at a critical time. As you have 2 younger children, others may need to step in while you focus on the parenting needs of your DD.

At some point you will come out the other side both stronger and closer for having successfully navigated this time, but you both may be in for a bumpy ride over the next few years.

She sounds like an abused child. She is angry at you because you did not protect her (not saying this is your fault) and dirty to avoid more abuse. One in six girls are sexually abused.

Your job is to stand firm and take every beating using strong ground rules. She’s railing against everything because she is a teenager. And she can. Remove privileges eg her phone and going out in the evenings or with friends when behaviour crosses your red lines. You are not alone in this all her classmates parents to some degree will be in a similar boat. Escape to check in with them when you can. But also make sure you pick the most important things to go into battle over and let the rest slide. Good luck!

Stop calling her unpatentable. The three adults who should be parenting her have so far not learned how. Time to research, study and learn.

Do the ADHD meds help her with anger outbursts in your experience? I think this part is one of the greatest challenges for us parenting here. It's something I'm exploring this week with a professional for my teen.

I sit in my room sometimes shaking. I send my teen outside and ask them to do some sport to regulate. Whilst out there I try regulate myself. This is harder now as I myself have many physical challenges and severe chronic pain.

With continual, non relenting feelings of fight or flight that you feel as a parent in a situation like ours, you will struggle to feel normal , acceptable and a good parent often.

I use words to myself when alone and broken like ' you horrible fuck**ng shit,' and I sometimes get my pillow and crush it between my hands thinking I hate you and I imagine it's them. And then I'm ok and I'm calm and can do it all over again. So read that and realise, some of us are living in situations beyond comprehension of other parents who do not have children like this.

PDA and some manifestations of behaviour associated with being ND and a teen will bring you to your knees and I believe my above example is not going to be abnormal for those who live this life, especially if PDA is in the mix( probably minus the awful foul potty mouth though 🤷‍♀️😆).

Words like unparentable are common vernacular - because they are not parentable FFS. There's no comprehension or care for the hierarchy between adults and children. There's a drive for autonomy that is not the same as NT kids. PDA kids demand to be treated as an equal adult which is not really conducive to parenting. So your title is spot on.

This is not you. And anyone putting their nonsense on you on this thread; you must see this is simply projection. Parents like us have an important role in helping those who are insecure as parents feel, well less so. Normal parents will probably never feel like I do, so how fantastic to say oh look at that. I don't do that. Therefore, I am a good enough parent. And I'll just re enforce that by telling you how awful you are and that this is your fault. Psychology 101.

I hope my experience might also make you laugh slightly. I go out and about and have a good vocabulary, am articulate and polite and caring. And behind the scenes I'm this potty mouth disgraceful wreck! 🤦😆

Oh that sounds horrible, poor you. You deserve a hug and a breath honestly parenting isn't easy. My son went through a phase like this at 8 with me and it was horrendous. Now at 13 he is more settled, but we identified he is dyslexic and probably ADHD as well. I changed how I interacted with him based on Mumsnet advice and how to talk to teens so that they'll listen and listen so teens can talk and the book you wish your parents had read. Both helped me see how my behaviour agrevated the interactions and gave me tools/language for coping. No real advice except you know your daughter, you know something is wrong, she obviously loves you, feels safe with you hence the aggression. It could be attention seeking? It could be all the days stress coming out, boundary setting and traditional punishment might not work. It's possible if you can get calm moments you can talk about it with her. Think of similar experiences you may have had, reassure her you love her as she is but you want to get along. Sometimes I think teens are like their toddler selves, pushing boundaries, hormonal and physical challenges, trying out new personalities and feelings. Scary times 😱

Hi OP ..
Sounds very hard x

Not caring about one’s appearance or cleanliness , angry & just so unhappy also can be a sign of depression…..
I know it’s going on a long time , she’s just a kid , if that is what is , she can’t understand her feelings so it will all present with anger & lashing out …
Definitely seek professional help ASAP ..
I hope you get the help you need & things start to improve really soon ….

I can't say this emphatically enough but try NVR (non violent resistance). It is evidence based for this kind of behaviour and saved us with our ds who was aggressive/risk taking/truanting etc.

Look at Partnership Projects for resources and links to therapists. Good luck.

Not o ce have you talked about how you've tried to connect. Did you ever actually have a good relationship with her, you said she was 8 when things started, what happened before 8. Because the truth of teenagers is, you mostly reap what you sow. So what did you sow?

This sounds really hard, I do think you need to start from a point of empathy. She's changed schools, she's bereaved, she's found it hard to make friends, she might be ND which will make life harder for her, her hormones are raging and she will feel like her mum is always angry with her. None of that takes away her being mean and lashing out, and it being really hard for you too.
I think it's great she's getting counselling and bereavement support. Have you tried discussing it all with her? I'd be trying to schedule some regular 121 time just for you two, to do something she loves (cinema, bowling, a dog walk, watching a film and having popcorn together, going for a mcdonalds or a costa - whatever). Build back some connection that isn't linked to fighting, and whatever happens stick to that 121 time, don't allow it to become a punishment to remove it. Look at rewarding the positives, and start small. I suspect her hygiene is based on puberty, feeling awkward in her changing body and also having no feeling of pride or love for herself, so you could look at how you build that up and make her feel confident. There's some great books, and diary type tools to support teenage girls with internal validation and building self esteem.
Definitely research and learn about parenting teens, about the chemical changes ( in terms of their emotional management and ability/inability to think through long term consequnces) and remember she will come through this and be out the other side and you will hopefully have an amazing adult to adult relationship that you'll cherish.