Devastated asking an older teen to move out - any words of advice or comfort?

[Worreidmum]

We are nearing the end of the road with DS (just turned 19) being at home and feel it's time to give him an ultimatum with a deadline to shape up or move out.
I'm gutted. I feel like I've failed him as a parent and desperately worried about what will happen to him not to mention panic about the practicalities of him being out in the world alone😢

I'm really hoping this ultimatum will shock him into action: he'll get a FT job and save up to go travelling as was his plan post school or find a training course, but, based on current behaviour there's a strong chance nothing will change & we have to follow through.

He spends most of his time in bed or getting wasted. He's rude & verbally aggressive and does absolutely nothing to contribute to the household without a major row. His room stinks of weed & I don't know for sure, but have my suspicions he might be dealing😞.He has a PT job & therefore some money (& pays a small amount of rent) but it's very ad hoc and can be just a couple of shifts a week so he's barely doing anything.

What will happen - I mean where does a 19 year old kicked out of home actual go? DH has been pushing for this for a couple of months but I've said no we can't kick him out (despite being the main target for his animosity) he's my baby & I'm terrified what will happen to him.

But I can't live like this anymore and it's impacting the whole family. Any words of advice or comfort - would you do it? Or anyone done care to share your experience?

This is just nonsense. It's like the people who say their 4 year old old has a tablet because they have to learn about technology because it's so important in this day and age. These things can be learnt at any age. Adults can learn to use technology with very little skill, it's designed to be intuitive.

In the same way people can live independently with very little skill, they pay their bills, eat microwave meals or Greggs all day long and really it doesn't have to involve much more than that. There is not a huge list of complicated 'skills' you HAVE to learn to live independently.

Some people may choose not to leave home but very often those that don't are ND or have poor MH. Most people don't want to be living with their parents forever. I certainly know someone who moved out in his 30's when he could finally afford to buy a place with his girlfriend.

A PP suggested that the OP was scaffolding for her son just by having him live at home. That isn't scaffolding. Scaffolding is where you support and help a young person and gradually remove the support as they become more competent leading to them feeling confident in taking their next steps. The OP's son is unlikely to feel confident taking his next steps in fact I'd suggest him self esteem is probably on the floor and that he is extremely lost right now.

How did it get to this point OP? How did he do in his GCSE's? What did he do from 16 - 18? Where did your relationship with him start to fall apart? Is it his dad or step dad you live with? He needs direction and a change of scene - what about something like The Prince's Trust? What about as a PP suggested looking into working abroad? Or what about volunteering abroad somewhere where board and food are provided? What were his interests when he was younger - can you tap into any of those? Was there anything he was good at at school? Do some research OP, give him a load of exciting options, work to get him on side - and tell his father/step father to fuck the fuck off.

I think rather than kick him out I would actively go look at rentals he could afford - he might change his ways if he realises maybe the grass is not greener

@GentlyAnarchistic

Interesting Tor doesn't know about household costs but is knowledgeable enough to know about house deeds.

Would he engage with any of these, OP? By him going abroad (and working) he'd get to travel, be independent, and also be away from anyone he is potentially dealing to and so break that cycle.
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@tothelefttotheleft
She thinks that £400 is such a huge amount that it will equal a large chunk of household expenses so is demanding to own part of the house. I used the word deeds, not sure if she did but that's what she wants.
It shocked me of someone like Tor (obviously not her name), would have such entitled thinking.

Van Life, he can travel in his accommodation, there are lots of people moving away from renting to van life.

I can offer some words of
Comfort. We had a terrible time with my DS when he was 17. Luckily just as he turned 18 he decided one day to leave and live with friends so we didn't actually have to ask him to leave (although we were very close to doing that). He went no contact for about a month and then gradually resumed contact and started to come home for Sunday lunches. Then at the 6 month point his shared accommodation was no longer available and he asked to come home for a couple of weeks while he found somewhere else to live. Long story short, he never left. He is 20 now with a great job, lovely girlfriend, helps around the house and is very grateful for everything. It was absolutely the making of him and made him realise how good he had it in the first place. I really hope that it all works out for you and your DS in the end. I remember coming on Mumsnet when I was in the middle of it all and asking for help and it felt like it would never end and get better...but it did

Wow lots of replies. Thank you to those being gentle with me - it's hard as this does feel like a massive parenting fail. We thought we'd done everything right (who doesn't right?) we read to him, we took him places, we ate meals together and chatted, we had boundaries but also gave him freedom to become independent, we told him we loved him but somewhere, we clearly fucked up 😔

To answer a few questions:

Yes DH is his dad and we've been happily married for 24 years - no drama here we get on, we share home life and parenting etc. Of course nothing is perfect but I'd say we had a pretty strong relationship.

No he doesn't smoke in the house and I've never actually found weed but then have always respected his privacy in his room although I'm pretty sure based on the smell it wouldn't be too hard to find & have seen papers, vapes, lighters etc lying around. Taking away wifi - I WFH so that won't work and we stopped his allowance a year ago so what little he has, is from his earnings.

DS has lots of lovely friends most of whom have gone off to uni with a couple of exceptions who seem to now be his smoking buddies! He had outside interests he was a keen footballer but then gradually stopped going now has no interest in restarting. It just became another bone of contention so eventually we stopped asking. He certainly wasn't spoilt - we aren't hugely well off and he always had chores to do at home and had a PT job from 15 - he was great for the first year then got sacked when he kept being late & developed an attitude. We organised & paid for him to do a football qualification as he was talking about doing a year abroad coaching & he did really well but hasn't even taken it any further even though he could supplement his earning quite nicely with coaching not to mention the opportunities volunteering or even paid abroad.

We can't (but wouldn't anyway) pay for him to travel - we've said we're happy to support him if that give him some direction & adventure plus will said we'll give him some spending money & pay for his insurance plus allowed him to pay a small 'contribution' rather than rent whilst he's saving. We suggested some amazing volunteering opportunities but anything unpaid is met with horror "why the fuck would I do that?" Did I mention he's also hugely selfish now - this is the boy that used to love doing the community tidy up when as a cub scout!

Mental health - this is an interesting one. I suspect he is depressed (& frankly if he wasn't before, lying in bed all day and smoking weed every night will certainly not help!) Last year I got a referral for some talking therapy and they agreed he would benefit from some CBT but then he turned 18 and I was no longer involved and hasn't engaged since. ADHD - I actually raised this with his school when he as about 14 as he was really struggling to focus on tasks and has always been hugely disorganised but they dismissed it. He won't go and see the doctor and gets very angry/defensive if I talk about his mental health, the possible benefits of CBT or speaking to a therapist or seeking outside help.

I'm reading all your replies and so grateful for the wisdom and words of comfort. I won't be raising the idea of moving out (to gp or elsewhere) as practically I can see it wouldn't achieve anything positive for him and whilst it might give us some respite, I'll end up lying awake fearing for his life every night.

I need to gather my thoughts and make a bit of a plan but take it slowly - if I start bamboozling him with things he gets very defensive. I will definitely revisit outside help or family therapy and try and gently suggest cheaper ways he could go abroad like the ski season or cruise ship ideas.

I can really identify with your post. We had to make our son leave home at the age of 18. He was smoking weed, stealing and was aggressive if we said no to him. Our home had become a warzone and we had to safeguard our younger children. I had become scared in our home of him, also had to phone the Police when I wouldn't give him money. He too had lots of opportunities.
Our local council housed him and then he ended up in a supported housing project for young people with addiction.
I turned to www.famanon.org.uk which is a 12 step programme for the family/friends of somebody with a suspected drug problem. I learnt that I'm powerless, not to enable, set boundaries, tough love etc. They have a helpline, forum, online and face to face UK wide meetings.
Fast forward and my son has been to college, works full time and has thanked us for putting him out, as he said that he wouldn't be the wonderful man that he is.

The weed is making him lazy and selfish and "not himself". It's a bloody scourge, it's nothing like the weed when we were young, it's vile stuff with real psychological and physical impact. I'd tackle that first with professional help if you can, otherwise you're on a hiding to nothing. He needs money to buy it, I'd up his rent and stop encouraging him to save up to travel. Getting him up and out of the door and into some kind of routine has to be the priority.

I'd advise against the travelling plan, and stop encouraging that as a goal. He will likely rinse through his money, and be home and back to square one within six months, having nothing but a hangover and some scars from moped exhaust burns on his legs to show for it, more pissed off, aimless and demotivated than he is now and a few grand lighter.

Tell him the password for the router has been changed and he can have it back when he's shaping himself. He won't lie in bed all day reading books. I don't think that kicking him out will be the making of him, far from it, but there's probably a middle ground.

Where I live he would end up sofa surfing or on the street and then maybe in temp accomodation. None of these will help him get his life on track but it is hard if he is refusing to do anything. Final ultimatum maybe? If he won't shape up and apply for jobs or apprenticeships and leave the drugs alone he's out. Make him lists of household jobs to go each day too.

What a kind and sensible post.

@canyouletthedogoutplease you speak a lot of sense.

The bloody weed - like most of my peers we all smoked a bit of pot when I was his age (no, I don't now & no he doesn't know!) but we all managed college, PT jobs, hobbies and life without ending up like my son & from what I've read here and elsewhere, quite a few young men are going down similar paths. I'm really keen to get some outside help and if that's with weed addiction then fine I just need him to engage/agree.

I also think there's merit in your idea about making it time to stop encouraging travel plans. Right now we are facilitating him doing bugger all & frankly, he could be just saying he wants to travel to keep us quiet & avoid doing anything significant. We very aware we could pour all our attention and focus into getting him abroad and he be back in 6 weeks back to square one without even the excitement of a trip to keep him falling even further off the cliff but right now, mainly just want to see him doing something . Anything will do just not be in bloody bed festering.

I'll talk everything through with DH tonight but looking at getting password controlled wifi is a good shout thinking we should tell him he needs to get a FT job or enrol on a FT course by the end of the month or his phone is cut off & his rent will double ( pays £40pw right now & probably eats that in night time meals so still hardly comparable to real life costs!!!)

Lots of think about.

@MounjaroOnMyMind thank you and yes as another poster said a kind and gentle post. My initial reaction was great idea but sadly the costs of moving him into a flat or even a houseshare where we live are prohibitively high - the cheapest flat in our area on Rightmove is £750pcm & that's a tiny unfurnished studio and house shares don't seem to be much cheaper albeit furnished.

I don't think we could even afford 3 months help but realistically he'd need 6 months upfront as there's no way I'm acting as his guarantor and he doesn't have a FT or permanent job.

Looks like he's not going anywhere just yet so I need to use this time to try and help, support, encourage him a bit longer whilst trying not to kill him or lose my mind . Lots of the 'kicking him into touch' ideas like giving him more household chores rota, charging rent, taking charge of a few family meal etc were introduced in October and we really hoped this would do the trick & he'd realise sitting at home wasn't so cushy - trouble is he's saying yes but just not doing it! We were super excited when he got some bar work at Christmas but it's now quietened down so hours are minimal. He's now annoyed that he "did as we asked & got a job and now you're saying it's not good enough 🙄"

Did he enjoy the bar work/hospitality?

@TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams hard to say as we don't get much enthusiasm about anything but I'd say so & when he's not at home he's very sociable, chatty and personable so it's an ideal job for him.

In my experience it's hard to get them to do chores etc but what you can do is withdraw anything you are doing.

So, for example, (and again I am writing from experience) you can say that now he is an adult you want to run the house more like a house share to prepare him for adulthood.

So - he does his own laundry. Buy him a laundry basket, couple of ikea bags and an airer and write a how to guide if necessary.

He buys his own food. Clear a cupboard for him in the kitchen and a shelf in the fridge and freezer. Label it clearly. Make clear that you don't eat his food and he doesn't eat yours.

He cooks his own meals, and either washes up (hard to enforce) or puts the stuff in the dishwasher.

If he wants one of your meals he needs to offer to make one for you (so a fair swop) and if he doesn't follow through on the swop next time he asks the answer is no.

He has no direction - and that will be seriously impacting him.

I wouldn't kick him out. He needs you.

I would say the best solution is a full time job. This will occupy him and he will meet people doing it and it will give him significantly less time to smoke weed and lay about.

It's so hard for you OP

my boyfriend when I was 19 (very long time ago) was kicked out in very similar circumstances. He ended up sleeping rough - and it exacerbated severely his underlying MH problems which your son may not have.

I think as you say - anyone who says 'he will quickly grow up' is sadly naive.

I can imagine a path for a teen in this situation where you pay his rent to help him move out and live in a house share.

Would you consider that a better situation than supporting him at home?

He would have then much more freedom to take drugs and be a waster!

however - I have to say that at that age I was a massive waster! took huge amounts of drugs, partied my life away - and I have turned out a very normal middle aged adult as did all the other wasters I know

so. Have faith. he may just be going through a bad patch.

Can I just add Op - that it might just be a time in his life when he is loafing about - smoking too much weed. And with pushing/ support he will eventually get himself into gear

I am so massively opposed to travelling in this situation. that is exactly what my ex did in late teens when he was already a weed addict with MH problems and it made it SO MUCH WORSE. far from home, cheap drugs and alcohol. there is absolutely nothing wholesome about travel at that age.

I would really really work on encouraging him to see that with a job he likes for now he will have cash/ freedom/ can move out and live with people his own age

I do think that one of the problems here is that if he was off at UNi taking drugs and being a waster (as is perfectly normal!! ) you wouldnt know about it.

He is just doing it all under your watchful eye and feeling constantly judged.

Im not saying he doesnt sound like a total Pain in the butt - but he is also a young adult who does not have the freedom he needs right now.

I'd go in hard on encouraging a start to adult life and forget the travel nonsense.

NC for this.

My PILs never did this and I think it's contributed massively to them now having a drug-addicted, mentally unwell, socially isolated and incredibly unhappy 35 year old son, against whom they now have a restraining order in place.

We too have done our time with BIL, as have several branches of the family. He stayed with us for a while (other family members saw it as a glorious opportunity for a fresh start for him, us not so much... v long story there). It didn't work out.

For me, weed in the house was an absolute red line. I said to him he could smoke if he wanted but not on our property and that was that.

In short... I think that giving your DS small objectives at this stage with the threat of turfing him out as an ultimate deterrent is tree best way forward. Say to him that whilst you love him, you're going to work towards helping him to live independently over the next couple of years or so because you believe that's the best thing for everyone.

Seriously if he's still like this at 35 he needs to be doing it in someone else's space and not yours.

So the first objective would be...

Within two weeks you have to be seriously looking for a full time course to study. This means that in two weeks we're going to discuss options around that with you. You don't have to have signed up, but you do have to look.

Or..,

In two weeks, you have to seriously have sorted out your room so that we can help you redecorate.

One of the problems is that when young people go off track, getting back on track seems so overwhelming for them. It's hard to sort out your living arrangements, your income, your social life and your family relationships if things have got behind. Is easier to have a joint and a nap quite frankly.

And then, have a fallback position of 'you can't stay here' timeline in place of say three months that he knows Scot. If he doesn't work towards the easier, practical activities, reserve the right to activate the ' you have three months to get out' clause.

This way it's all under more control, everyone knows what the plan is for if things go off track, there's no need for heightened emotions or anxiety-ridden knee-jerk decision-making at crisis stage because you have a plan that you can follow through.

If he can't get on board with this, then you'll activate your plan, or he'll walk anyway.

Yes he's young, yes things are expensive, but he's not a baby. He's not too good to do lots of hours of low-paid work if need be to keep him stable.

He needs to feel like he has agency, but in manageable chunks, where you're not constantly in conflict with him.

I say all of this because we have had other family members in similar situations too, and I've had to think what I'd do if this happened to my own DC.

Of course he's your son, but you can easily get to the point where you're setting yourself on fire to keep your adult child warm. Please don't do that.

It's not nonsense. Some people have real difficulty learning. A staggering number of adults have the literacy or numeracy skills of a primary school child.

My family member could probably learn how to pay a bill, at age 35+, but he'd also need to have a strategy for knowing when to do it, and remembering the consequences for not doing it, and being motivated to do it, and not "mean to" then forget. And be able to deal with any part of it going wrong or making sure your zero-hours job has put enough cash in the right bank account. Intellectually you need a certain level of initiative, strategic skills and memory which some people don't have, never have, or at least it never survived the weed if they ever had it.

I'm not saying that's the norm, but it happens, and the older they get, the less self-esteem they have and feel humiliated being told or taught anything, particularly when it's the 10th time you've gone through this particular set of instructions.

@Worreidmum ok - only one thing jumped out in all your updates to the extent much else falls. It's the fact you as mum ( always always know best) think he could have ADHD. Mum's instincts are never to be questioned, I have seen this so so much. It is not in the interest of many public services to go out their way to support an assessment. It's easier to push you back if it isn't obvious.

Self medicating with weed and other struggles are significant risks in this group of teenagers. Even if it doesn't look obvious - if you start reading up on this I believe things will start falling into place and you will potentially think aaahhh.

In this position, I would be arranging a private ADHD screening for him with an accredited psychiatrist who follow NICE approved assessment criteria. I would tell son you have strong feelings to believe it's worth checking out and you love and support him whatever the outcome.

I have been researching ADHD meds and I know these don't always work but the overwhelming feedback from weeks of research says wow, this stuff really can improve lives. There's a great deal of research to say it prevents young people going off the rails into a life of drugs and crime simply in attempt to self medicate.

I'd use this as a bargaining tool. It is something he has to agree to ( the assessment) or ( and what that OR is, I don't know). You'll have to find something tangible to motivate him to go ahead with this.

The NHS will be as much help as a chocolate teapot. If you and husband can get the cash together you will find someone. I had to do the same for my son.

As others have said I would not kick him out but I'd make home more like a house share. Stop paying for his phone, food, anything really stop paying for anything. Change the Wi-Fi pasword. If you do his washing stop doing that. Clear out a kitchen cupboard for his food and give him a shelf in the fridge just like a house share set up.

I would however tell him any agression and he's out. You should not have to put up with that.

I know times have changed but if you do have to kick him out he can survive it. My parent kicked me out age 17. I had to stop attending school to work full time on minimum wage. Horrible shitty house share after a couple weeks sofa surfing. Evening job on top of full time day job. I wasn't a difficult teen really just had terrible parents- what made the difference for me was I was already working most evenings and weekends as my parent wouldn't pay anything towards my food phone etc. I would have starved on the streets if I didn't have money for food and to offer money to the friends parents that took me in initially. So that's why I say stop paying for all they now as it will force him to find work and then if he continues to be agressive at least you know he has some income and could pick up more shifts. He has £1200 saved he can get a room in a shared house with that look at spare room.com.

I think you need to sort him out with a place to live. That is what happened to my brother. If you literally kick him out is high risk