Duplicitous Daughter

[WhatCanIDoToSortThisOutNow]

I'm at a loss as to what to do about this bloody phone situation. She's had her (expensive) smart phone taken off her for not being honest about homework and taking my old phone to chat to her mates after bed time. I usually have her phone in my room at night to prevent that sort of thing.

I bought a cheap dumb phone earlier this week, which I was also taking off her at bedtime. I'd notified school to let them know that homework needed to be set on paper as she doesn't have access to the apps.

This morning, I find out that she's borrowed another smart phone from a friend and put her sim card in that! Apparently on Tuesday. I'm cross as well as disappointed. I had no idea she could be so deceitful.

What the hell do I do next?!

Some of these replies are extreme. I think it’s really good to have a curfew for phones.

I take it off her at 9.30pm because you're not supposed to be looking at screens for an hour before sleep. I thought I was being sensible!

This is what I do for the same reason! It's not unreasonable imo. It's not just sleep ( which is important) but things like online bullying etc.

I think screens off at 9.30pm is entirely reasonable. My DD is 14 and her phone turns off at that time too.

I wouldn’t say it’s an obsession but I would say it should still have a place. We try to rationalise with children the same way we do with adults and it doesn’t work. They need to understand clear boundaries and often clear boundaries are enforced with punishment. The reluctance to punish, in my opinion, is one of the reasons why behaviour is so poor in schools. Children are no longer fearful of consequences.

They don't "fear the consequences", they just resent you (and learn to be more sneaky). Its ok to hate school and teachers, but think where you're going in your family. No adult ever carries guilty conscience over staying past bedtime or being sloppy with homework. But they will surely remember every single instance where you caused them grief. Even when you were technically right and they were in the wrong.

ps. i'm one of those who lied and still lying to my mum because honesty is just impossible without fallout.

@Soitis83 I thanked poster because there was kindness, and a gentle solution. I'm clearly not 'great', otherwise I wouldn't be asking for support!

My dd is generally fabulous. This is a glitch.

We will work on it together.

I am with you totally, this is good parenting, kids need boundaries. She might be 15, but she is still a kid, and is obviously not making good choices (homework), which is all part of being a kid. I think you are doing the right thing.

she'll definitely go NC with you when she's older.

She’ll go NC because her phone was taken at 9.30pm in her teen years? Or am I reading this wrong? Because that sounds a tad dramatic.

I do the same with 15YO DD and we have a great relationship. She tells me her “secrets”, loves to fill me in on all the school dramas and even went to an “old fashioned” photo shop to get a framed picture of me and her for her desk the other day. If she’s going to go NC with me in adulthood because I had a phone “curfew” in her teen years, I’ll be very surprised!

I’m a teacher and I honestly wish more people parented like this (ie set boundaries and stuck to them). Mobile phones are a major issue for teachers and I’ve lost count as to how many learners turn up exhausted after being online too late at night. My own parents set boundaries (which I sometimes flouted), but now I’m older I am so glad they did. It’s hard work setting boundaries and sticking with them, but good on you for not picking the easy way out.

Teachers are teaching experts not parenting experts. The short term focus of crowd control and behaviour management should be the business of teachers. They need to control a classroom.

Parents should have an eye to behaviour of children. But we should also have a much larger focus on raising effective, responsible adults who still have a relationship with us. This involves not sacrificing relationship for short term behaviour management. Raising them to internalise the control and conscience, rather than just listening to our voice. It takes longer and is messier.

Sometimes the battle and the war are very different. Teachers are in the battle but parents are in the war.

From what I'm observing, the uber traditional super strict no nonsense parents raise very anxious children. Maybe micromanaging every aspect of the offspring's life isn't such a great idea after all.

Yes parents are definitely in the war. I’m a parent as well as a teacher, so I do tend to parent in a way that considers how my own children will interact with teachers or others in society. However, their wellbeing is of utmost importance. I want them to self regulate, but I know in the case of my own children that they need guidance with this, otherwise at least one of my children would be on his tech all day and night and everything else would suffer.

I do genuinely worry about some of the things I see in my day job: teens being completely unwilling to hear the word ‘no’. Many often want their own way all the time. They think they should be able to go on their phones in lessons and don’t think it’s rude or could impact on their learning. They think they can make sensible decisions, but then when you give them opportunities to do so, they make incredibly bad decisions and get themselves into all sorts of bother. I tend to think they should be given a chance, but if they blow it, then we should step in. It has a massive impact on their life chances, achievement and ultimately their mental health. It genuinely makes me very sad.

Of course she'll be a target for bullies; anyone with a dumb phone at school is nowadays - I'm not saying that's right it absolutely isn't but every school has bullies.
And by saying homework needs to be set on paper because she's no longer allowed to use the apps will signpost the fact she doesn't have a smartphone!

No she'll go none contact because of the way her mum has treated her for missing a couple of pieces of homework.
Taking a phone at 9.30pm is absolutely acceptable if the childs homework is completed.
Taking the phone (that is needed to do the homework) away indefinitely for a very minor offence that had nothing to do with her having a phone is what will eventually make her go NC!
I'm pretty sure this isn't the first time the OP has really overreacted!

So why is every piece of homework set at any school in the UK app based? Even my primary child's reading book is on an app!
Teachers either want kids off screens or to be able to set easy homework that marked by a bot - you can't have it both ways!

You are parenting her like she is a primary child.Your goal is for her to develop the self-regulation to care for herself, you are not giving her the space to learn take responsibility for herself. Having yourself up in her business where schoolwork, is concerned is stopping her from taking ownership.She learns not to be on her phone all night by feeling awful when she has to get up for school the next day!

I have personally never set digital based homework. No one in my department does either. I teach a subject that is not at all suited to app based homework. I need to be able to read through what they have written thoroughly and mark it the old fashioned way. It actually really annoys me when my own children come home with app/ computer based homework. Thankfully their reading books are not on an app. I think tech has its place on education and could most certainly help with teachers’ utter ridiculous workload, but it would be better if teachers were given enough PPA time to do their marking the traditional way. Some learners prefer tech based stuff too, but learners (and people in general) need to be able to exercise some discipline with tech and use it when appropriate.

9:30 is a reasonable time to be done with phone access.

@CosyLemur - It's the senior management in schools who think setting homework online is a good idea, and puts it in place, and the teachers on the frontline who have to pick up the pieces regarding inappropriate phone use. I guess the argument would be that the app can be accessed on a laptop, so the teen doesn't actually need a phone.

I agree, she's not too old for this OP and more people should be taking your approach.

Phones should be charging elsewhere at night or the little buggers would be up on them all night.

Apple screen time is fantastic in restricting wheat they can see and when, figuring out how this works will pay dividends.

I wonder what the school will say about having homework set on paper. DDs are 4 years apart and DD1's homework was always done in exercise books and written in a log book. DD2's was all apps and electronic.

I'm no technophobe but much preferred the paper system. And there was so much less of it as teachers would actually take the homework in and mark it, then give feedback to the student.

It will be interesting to see if schools do go back to the old system now they are banning phones in schools. I felt a lot of the electronic homework was pointless, there was way too much, and it was so stressful trying to keep up with it, and the fact it is on screen is a distraction in itself. It was as stressful for me as much as DD2, and I'm a lawyer!.Homework stress was one of the reasons for DD2's EBSA. We wasted so much time faffing about with about ten different apps for various bits of homework.

I should say as well DD1 was in a super selective grammar who had already learned their lessons about putting too much pressure on kids. DD2's mixed comprehensive with a big range of abilities and a ton of kids with SEN was absolutely fucking crazy and rigid in comparison.

DD2 is homeschooled now - online school.

I'd say be gentle with your daughter and talk to her, they are under an awful lot of largely totally unreasonable pressure from school at 15. She probably got the phone as she felt she couldn't cope without it. Schools have made it so that the kids can't cope without tech.

Apple screen time is fantastic in restricting wheat they can see and when, figuring out how this works will pay dividends.

But why should we? It's all such bullshit and extra work for parents when the tech companies are all powerful.

Indeed, and schools are getting away with having it both ways at the moment. While parents and kids struggle at home faffing about with dozens of apps.

Unless Labour breaks these powerful academy chains with vastly overpaid managers who have zero accountability to teachers, children or parents or apparently the LEA things will never change. Gove completely broke schools.

Your response is completely over the top OP. 'Duplicitous' good grief, start treating her as a young adult and she might start acting as one. For goodness sake give her the phone back for homework, she's must be doing GCSE's.

Why should you?

Cause the internet is a cesspit and you need to protect your own kids.

I think she's too old for you to be controlling her in this way. That's why she's rebelling.