Duplicitous Daughter

[WhatCanIDoToSortThisOutNow]

I'm at a loss as to what to do about this bloody phone situation. She's had her (expensive) smart phone taken off her for not being honest about homework and taking my old phone to chat to her mates after bed time. I usually have her phone in my room at night to prevent that sort of thing.

I bought a cheap dumb phone earlier this week, which I was also taking off her at bedtime. I'd notified school to let them know that homework needed to be set on paper as she doesn't have access to the apps.

This morning, I find out that she's borrowed another smart phone from a friend and put her sim card in that! Apparently on Tuesday. I'm cross as well as disappointed. I had no idea she could be so deceitful.

What the hell do I do next?!

They child can turn family link off at 12

Totally agree!

I don't agree that we should just expect teenagers to lie, and I think she has been sneaky. I would have a big conversation about trust - she will be wanting more freedom soon and you need to be able to trust her. This is to make sure she's safe, not to restrict her life.
Then try to agree some boundaries for phone time, doing homework etc.

I caught my then 14yo with a second phone.
After the initial panicking ("is it drugs/criminal activity?") i just gave it up. You think you're too old for rules and control? Ok. But then WTF am i doing buying you higher end phones and paying for contracts? Obviously £60 phone with a PAYG is good enough and you can afford it from your own money. End of.
Now i just turn the wifi off at bedtime.

Their teens. Being in touch with their mates is way more important than your approval or feelings.

Agree with most of what you said here but think the lying to loved ones thing needs a bit more detail. It’s normalish to tell white lies - but not healthy to lie a lot or be deceitful towards people. Outside of the obvious (betrayal being hurtful), people/groups do tend to pick up on these behaviours and it could lead to negative social/professional consequences that are hard to shake in later life.

I’m sure you likely see it the same way but just thought I’d add the disclaimer!

Taking her phone is a massive thing. It cuts off her friends and social life. I'm 26 now but my parents used to do it to me and it was awful so I can't really blame her. I hated them for it at the time and I got a phone off my friend too. Taking it at a certain time is fine but you should agree with her.

Work with her and have an agreement. Explain what you're worried about etc and agree on a reasonable time to take it. Say you understand how much if means to her and you don't want to take it away fully. Make her feel like you're actually working with her and doing things for her benefit instead of just punishing her.
'Hi darling, can we have a talk tonight about your phone and homework and figure out a way where you can balance both that works for us both?'
You may then agree on a 10:30 phone downstairs and that could work better because she took part in the decision.
Have an open conversation about homework and put effort into helping her.

You need to look into 'logical consequences' and Choice theory when it comes to behaviour management.
Not doing homework is unrelated to the phone. If she is doing something inappropriate with the phone such as bullying others then sure take it, that'd be a logical consequence.
Here's some logical punishments or thing to put in place to avoid it happening again:

1. Sign her up for homework club. My school had one of these and children were escorted there straight from lessons.
2. Assign routine 'homework time' at home that you monitor
3. Monitor and check that she's done her homework
4. No going out until homework is done

I'm an after school nanny and in the car I say to the children 'what time would you like to do your homework tonight? 4:00, 5:00 or 6:00?'

Because they've had a choice and not been told, they feel in control of the situation.

'We need to agree on how to balance your phone and homework. What would work best for you and how can I best help you to make sure your homework is done? Would you prefer that you do your homework at home or at homework club?'

She'll get the message and probably thank you for it. She needs to feel like you're on her side. I always used to forget to do my homework and it really weighed on me, I was stressed about it. My parents never really seemed to notice but my friends' parents were really involved. I would've appreciated some motivation and a stricter push from them to do it.

Good luck. Please don't get really mad at her, this is so normal. Take things a bit lighter and work with her. She wants to be good

This girl is 15, not 5. She doesn't need controlling to that extent.

Your dc does school work for 4-5 hours a night? Is this right?

@yipyipyipp how is asking your daughter to be involved in working out solutions, for the problems that she's created, on her own terms 'controlling?'
Controlling would be taking the phone away indefinitely. 15 year olds need guidance, respect and consequences for their actions

Well done. I think you're doing the right thing. If she's getting into trouble, and not doing her homework, she needs to focus, less time socialising with friends is better, at least, not on a phone. In real life. She needs to know her own mind.

It's really unpleasant to call your child duplicitous. She's just a standard teen rebelling a little.

Does she know what she needs to do to for you to agree to give her the phone back?

Do you have a plan for how you will relax your control and pass responsibly to her for regulating her phone, sleep and school work as she gets older?

You find the reluctance to sanction strange. I find the obsession with punishment strange.

@Rosas67 your post is helpful, thank you.

Have not read all but i don't think taking a 15yr old's phone away at 9.30 is out of order at all. Perfectly sensible to give wind down time and go to sleep!

Our 15 had to leave her phone downstairs from 9. She never objected as she started with that rule when she got her phone at 12.

You do need to have a discussion, OP and work out some boundaries that are fair and allows her to get on with her school work and see her pals but she is 15. Not 18.

You are perfectly sensible with your 9.30 time.

I agree. I would quite like a real grown up to come and take my phone away when it gets late.

However, I don't like the sense that op almost dislikes get daughter for what is very normal teenage behaviour

And let's remember, the smart phone seems to have been permanently confiscated. It's the "dumb phone" that is being removed at bedtime. I think people have forgotten that.

I wouldn’t say it’s an obsession but I would say it should still have a place. We try to rationalise with children the same way we do with adults and it doesn’t work. They need to understand clear boundaries and often clear boundaries are enforced with punishment. The reluctance to punish, in my opinion, is one of the reasons why behaviour is so poor in schools. Children are no longer fearful of consequences.

As I have said previously though punishment shouldn’t be harsh and unlimited in time. It should be really fair, clear and achievable. It doesn’t have to come with shouting and bawling. It proves that actions have consequences and I think that is a really valuable life lesson.

What a depressing attitude.
I absolutely disagree.

Nobody likes to find out that they've been lied to, but then completely blindsided by their own behavior. Overreacting, controlling, always finding something to start a conflict about... you name it. Trust goes both ways.

IMHO, at 15 you shouldn't micromanage neither homework nor bedtime. I just expect decent performance at school in general and bedtime within reasonable hours.

Yes it's GCSE year so the recommended 2 hours of revision per night plus their homework which depending on how much work they've done in class will be 2-3 hours.
That's the lower end of the scale most schools around here is 3/4 hours before revision.

Yes she's talking because she's terrified of you now she'll definitely go NC with you when she's older.

She's not doing those things because she wants to she's doing it because you've stolen from her, threatened her and made her a target for all the bullies in school.
Did you even ask why she'd missed a couple of pieces of homework or did you go straight for the nuclear attack?

Oh wow @cosylemur!
Stolen from her? A phone that I pay for!?
How have I threatened her?

I'm glad you're not my mum!

Don't be ridiculous. The comment on OP making her daughter a target for 'all the bullies in school' is so misguided. Victims and their mums don't make bullies, poor parenting and bullies make bullies. The OP has demonstrated great parenting - set out clear boundaries and is focussed on her daughter's welfare.

Trust me when I say, she won't learn how to 'be good', she'll learn how to become more sneaky. Taking the phone away will do absolutely nothing but make her resent you. She's a teenager, it doesn't take much. Instead, tell her why you think it's important she doesn't do her homework but letting her know lying to you is far more of an issue. If she doesn't do it, school will punish her. If she does, great.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

So you're only willing to listen to the posters who agree with you, no room for change on your behalf? You just needed validation on how awful your teenager is and how great you are. Gotcha