Duplicitous Daughter

[WhatCanIDoToSortThisOutNow]

I'm at a loss as to what to do about this bloody phone situation. She's had her (expensive) smart phone taken off her for not being honest about homework and taking my old phone to chat to her mates after bed time. I usually have her phone in my room at night to prevent that sort of thing.

I bought a cheap dumb phone earlier this week, which I was also taking off her at bedtime. I'd notified school to let them know that homework needed to be set on paper as she doesn't have access to the apps.

This morning, I find out that she's borrowed another smart phone from a friend and put her sim card in that! Apparently on Tuesday. I'm cross as well as disappointed. I had no idea she could be so deceitful.

What the hell do I do next?!

Destroy the sim

Nobody 'needs' more time. She's a child, she needs sleep. OP is being responsible.

Punishment doesn’t have to come with manipulation. If done correctly- clearly explained, time limited and fair it can be very effective.

There isn’t one-size fits all. I find the reluctance to sanction strange. I see it over and over again on here regardless of the age of the child.

“Teenagers are supposed to lie. Everyone does. ”

What a depressing attitude.
I absolutely disagree.

If she’s talking to her friends and you’re sure that’s what she’s doing then I’d give her more time.

It’s obviously really important to her because she’s gone against you twice by getting other phones. You haven’t mentioned any behavioural issues and you’ve said you’re shocked by the way she’s been about this so I’m assuming she’s generally a well behaved, good teen.

Why not compromise? Ask her to explain why it’s so important to her. Explain to her that you care about her sleep and that’s why you take the phone. Give her another 30 minutes on the understanding that she hands it over at 10 without any fuss and she never sneaks a phone in again.

Download the app Family Link. You can set controls, limits and times. Get better at this technical stuff. Quickly.

15?! She could have a baby in the next year! FGS let her have her phone. You're creating the duplicity. Find a different consequence. Tho at 15 I left mine to it tbh, as I don't hold with homework. They had well rounded lives, good GCSE's and have great jobs.

What a depressing attitude.
I absolutely disagree.

It's not depressing at all, it's realistic. And I'm willing to bet you lie too. Saving people's feelings, being kind, Santa, secret things, friend's confidences, safety. Does my arse, in fact, look big in that dress?

There are a million lies we tell. Teenagers are just learning when and why.

If this were me I'd de-escalate it.

You're snowballing and making decisions based on emotion and panic rather than calm logic.

We set a specific time on however many specific evenings where it's "get it done" time. It's normally while I'm still working so we both sit at the desk and I'm there to help but generally I mind my own business and she kinds hers, barring the occasional bit of chat. Maybe it feels less onerous to her because I'm doing something similar at the same time.

Your "I don't know how phones work" is something that gets trotted out regularly and I cannot fathom why anyone who is a parent willingly lets themselves get into a situation where a teenager eclipses them in tech ability. No wonder you're floundering and don't understand how to find a way to work with her.

You're doing the right thing. Keep at it. She's proving over and over again she's not to be trusted. Get the sim off her this time. I also agree that you need to learn how to check her phone. 9.30 is not too early to stop being on your phone. Let her know that all this is up to her, if she keeps lying, she'll keep having her phone removed.

Wow some of the responses on here are unbelievable. Yes to persisting with love, patience and firmness. Yes to parenting and taking her phone. Yes to consequences. Of course she's a teen and will test boundaries and push buttons, but we manage this, we don't indulge it. You're doing a great job - and as a teacher I can always tell which kids have clear boundaries and which ones don't.

Family Link isn't much use for a 15 year-old because Google takes away a parent's power to stop children deleting it when they turn 13.

If you haven't already, you need to be explicit that she isn't allowed any phone. She could genuinely think she's exploiting a valid loophole: you took her phone away but you didn't say she couldn't just get another one.

This. You're parenting her op, I think your approach is correct.

Does she bring home a homework diary that you have to sign? My kids school had this and you therefore knew what homework they had and could check if it was completed. I would have a set homework time in the evening, either before or after dinner and then let her have her phone once homework is completed. I wouldn't be too shocked or upset about the deceit - most 15 year olds will lie to try and get out of trouble! Look at it this way - she's resourceful and can think on her feet!

Sleep and mental health are so important OP. I think no phones after 9:30pm is great parenting.

You don't sound like a rational human being. You have taken her belongings, thus she is having to find alternative ways of communicating with her friends. I know you would prefer her to be lonely and stare at the wall all night, but at some point you have to get a bloody grip and realise you're making things worse.

Give her back her stuff, and stop telling strangers online that your daughter is "deceitful" and "duplicitous". You're completely out of line.

Some parents are so hung up on their almost adult children's sleep. So what if she's tired the next day, she'll learn then to go to sleep earlier hopefully. I don't see the harm if she's just chatting to friends.

1. school won't set her homework on paper
2. you're taking her phone off her at 9.30 are you even checking that homework is completed before taking it?
3. why weren't you checking that homework was being done; don't you actually check? 99% of the homework apps send emails telling you if homework has been started, it's due date and how much is left to be done.

Not at 15 when she needs it to do her homework.
15 is GCSE age mine that are doing GSCEs are getting 4/5 hours worth a night when you add in revision as well. To get it finished by 9.30 they'd have to forgo any after school activity and forgo a sit down family meal!
And homework is all app based!

There seem to be a lot of extreme answers on this thread - in both directions.

I assume she's in GCSE year, so I think taking her phone off her at 9:30 is quite reasonable, on a week night. At that age my DD needed 12 hours sleep a night (for reasons I won't go into now) but 15yo are still growing physically and testing boundaries.

Regarding the homework, I'd let school deal with that. She was given detentions, and I imagine if she continues not to do homework she'll get after school detentions. If that impacts on you then I'd give natural consequences- if I had to collect my DC from school after a detention it would cost about £10 in petrol, so that was £10 I couldn't spend on something they wanted.

She's thinking outside the box in how to get a phone- you caught her out. You need to be on your toes with teens as if it was left up to them they'd spend all night chatting with friends and never do any homework. But I think you should back down in the way you handle this with her or you're going to end up getting really cross with each other.

FGS! She's not being groomed! Only in Mumsnet does every girl get groomed! You're taking a phone off your daughter at 9.30; she's not being groomed she wants to stay in contact with her friends - who are also doing GCSEs so likely haven't had chance to chat until then because they're doing homework.
9.30 is very early for year 10/11 to have their phones and no contact with friends.
Also the fact that you don't know how smart phones work I'm assuming she's had them for more than a few weeks, and you've said she's the youngest of 3 - how do you not know any of this? Seriously I honestly believe lack of knowledge of how to safeguard your child on the technology you're giving them should be classed as child endangerment! It's really not that difficult to do.

What you do is talk with her! Sit her down in a non confrontational way - maybe over cake and coffee in a cafe and in a very calm voice ask her why she thinks you took her phone. Keep asking questions to discover what she thinks is happening and encourage her to work out for herself that the reason you took it is so she can stay focused long enough to overcome the issues with homework.

Ask her why she thinks you are worried about homework. Ask her if she is worried about it too. If not why not. If she is, what sort of support does she think would help her get on top of it? Ask her what she thinks would be a better solution to ensuring homework is done. Ask her if she knows much about digital addiction and whether she thinks it is the cause of her not doing her work. Ask what she thinks it is. Etc etc.

Communicate with your teenage and stay calm. It's usually the best way through, especially if you can gently steer them towards understanding for themselves the positive reasons for your reactions to their behaviour.

I think 9.30 is a bit early for her age. Is it the same of a weekend? I have parental controls in place so they can’t use their phones after a certain time but this is off of a weekend. You need to learn how to use these asap, it’s simple enough to google, no wonder she’s one step ahead if you can’t even figure this out. Give her an opportunity to trust her and tell her the consequences if she doesn’t.

Her home work is accessible using the laptop.
She is a nightmare when she's tired. Everything I've read says "no screens before bed" even for adults. I'll be sticking to this.
We're talking much more, she's working better on her homework, even asking for help.
She understands why I took the phone.