Move from boys grammar to mixed comp??

[HalleyH]

Apologies in advance for what I’m sure will be a long post - I’m trying to sort things in my own mind and would appreciate knowing your thoughts too…

My son is in year 8 and is one of the older ones in the year. He is at a selective all boys grammar school - he is doing really well academically but has never really settled and hasn’t made any friends. He find the alpha male/footbally boys environment hard.

Is is very creative and quirky and doesn’t seem to fit the traditional mainstream grammar mould. He has been struggling a lot with his mental health in terms of anxiety and depression - often finding it hard/impossible to be at school. We are also currently looking at an autism diagnosis.

Outside of school it feels as though he can be his true self and has a large group of friends out of school - a mixture of both sexes, but most of them older than him.

His group of older friends are also equally quirky and creative and all go to the local mixed comprehensive.

After being on the waiting list for a year a space has finally come up at the mixed comprehensive - we are unsure what to do…

He is achieving great grades at his current grammar but is ultimately unhappy. But will it be better in Year 9 when he starts his GCSEs and is in smaller classes? Will he push himself at the mixed comprehensive? I’m worried that he’ll still not fit in as he’ll be academically ahead. And the friends he has at the school are all in older year groups. But we don’t know until we try… but if we try and move schools then we can’t move back again…

I feel so torn as to what is best… I need a crystal ball!

Definitely this.
A quieter, an is teenager can get swallowed up in a massive state school. And this could have catastrophic effects on his GCSEs. If he enjoys his activities and has friends there, focus on that. Year 8 is still young. I found my school crew in years 9-11.

Good. At this age I think he has a say, though not necessarily the final one
at the end of the day he’s unhappy and there are no clear options.

Ps to as many parents as you can at the new school. My son hasn’t started his high school yet (year 6) but it was speaking to other parents that clarified that it was the best choice for him

That’s very true about not everyone affording tutors. He did have tutoring for the 11+ and just scraped through but is intelligent in a mature/interested way rather than a traditionally academic way if that makes any sense. I often wonder if without the tutoring where he would’ve ended up?

I'd move him. His happiness and mental health is far more important than the academic side of things.

The new school offer much the same GCSEs as his current school.
i know he wouldn’t have direct contact during lessons with his older friends at the new school but at least he could see them at lunchtime and get introduced to others in clubs etc. At the moment he spends break and lunch by himself as he has no friends to be with. The actual lessons are fine.

Yes. This combined with his unhappiness indicates that he'd benefit from a move. It won't be perfect, but it sounds as if he'd fit in better and feel more positive. He can meet up with friends at break and lunchtime which will help him a lot.

Mental health matters more than gcse grades

You can achieve academically your whole life not just in your mid teens

Give him happiness and he is more likely to build the right life for himself

You make good points. I had forgotten DS2 was very unhappy in his selective school at that age and i thought hard about moving him. He couldn't find his feet or make friends. I think he saw the sporty A types as being what he felt he 'ought' to be and wasn't, but didn't really look wider at the quirkier boys. In the end there wasn;t a better school to fit him and he was diagnosed as autistic and given outstanding support by the school, so he stayed there and it worked out.

What makes me think OP's son's case is different is that he has strong friendships outside school and many of them attend the local state school. If a transfer would mean he felt more like he belonged, and it reduced his general anxiety, he might thrive better.

I think given what you say including that he only just scraped in (so he’s not some mega brainy outlier) I personally would be minded to move him, but I would explain the situation to the new school first and ask what they could do to help settle him. Good luck to your boy 🍀 I hope he settles well and loves his new school if that is what you decide. FWIW, I experienced this at my second junior school aged 9-11 and it was miserable. I had good friends in my earlier and later schools, just never really fitted into school 2. I was fine again once I went off to secondary and at university. Best wishes.

As someone who is ND and the parent of ND DC, I would be very concerned that your DS expects that changing schools is the answer to all the social challenges of being ND. It won’t be and everything may come tumbling down with that realisation.

You need to visit the school, discuss your concerns about how he will cope with poor behaviour in class, and see classes for yourself to gauge whether it is the right school for him. He needs more than a taster day. Kids will be interested in the new kid at first and his older friends will be supportive but they may not want to have him join their social group every day. It could backfire and he could feel rejected if they don’t want to spend all their time with him or, worse, he could alienate himself from them.

Even if the kids are well behaved, your DS might struggle with being in a more mixed ability class where other DC need more support. He may perceive needing to ask questions or not understanding as “not listening”. As a PP said, there are usually more quirky, bright, creative ND kids (especially those who have a “rule following” profile”) at grammar schools than secondary moderns and the teaching style often fits them better (obviously that is a huge generalisation but we don’t know your DS or the schools).

If it helps, my DC definitely found their tribe more easily in GSCE classes. In both my experience and their experience, having a tribe outside of school when school was difficult was what gets you through. The reality is, he may struggle to find his tribe amongst his peers during his early teens. It’s common for ND kids to be able to mask at primary school but struggle at secondary, not just because they are ND but also because teenagers aren’t the most empathetic of creatures. The differences widen during puberty, it’s a difficult time for all kids, but it will be a lot easier for him as he grows older. The further you are in education, the more specialised your study, the more likely your peers will be your tribe. And your peers aren’t selfish, conformist teens 😂

This move could be exactly what he needs but it could also be a disaster. I think you, as parents, need to see the school for yourself.

Yes to everything you’ve said as these are all of our concerns too.
If I knew that we could stay at the current school and try out the GCSEs for a term and then swap school if it hadn’t worked I would chose that option, but it’s a case of move now or potential not at all as we have no idea if/when another place would come up.
Its not a decision we’re taking lightly - I just wish I had a crystal ball!

I think you should try and get him into the new school before they break up. Even if it's just gor a day or two, it will take away the worry over the summer

Yes, that’s worth a go. His current school breaks up a few days earlier than the new one so it’s a possibility

As someone who is ND and the parent of ND DC, I would be very concerned that your DS expects that changing schools is the answer to all the social challenges of being ND. It won’t be and everything may come tumbling down with that realisation.

Same! But ugh, this is so true @BobandRobertaSmith. Must be very tempting to say to yourself that the grass will be greener at another school.

Also agree that you’re more likely to find quirky, rule following ND kids at a grammar than other schools. It’s a shame the OP’s son hasn’t found any likeminded souls so far. My daughter seeks out ND kids (diagnosed and undiagnosed!) like a heat seeking missile 😂

Also agree with @Remaker in that the prevailing attitude on MN is so anti selective school I’m not surprised so many people have been recommending the OP switches schools ASAP.

Re. the discussion around “just scraping in” as proof that the grammar is a bad fit: my daughter got in by the skin of her teeth, and in no way has that been an indicator that she doesn’t have the academic chops. If anything it’s a sign of her neurodivergence (slow processing etc) and when it comes to GCSEs she will probably qualify for extra time.

I'd get a diagnosis first along with a proper support plan. Secondary moderns are rarely full as they aren't ever anyone's first choice for a bright child. He really needs to do some taster days to see how he copes with the behaviour and the lack of academic challenge.

We discussed the new school offer with him yesterday and despite months of asking to move he doesn’t want to go! 🤷🏼‍♀️

I wouldn't leave it as a done deal OP. If he's undiagnosed and miserable it still needs to be addressed. He may need additional support where he currently is and also some targeted intervention.

Yes I think it definitely still needs discussing - we were just very surprised at his reaction. We’re on the waiting list for an NHS autism diagnosis (2-3years) but looking into private options too.
The additional support and targeted intervention definitely sound like something we need to look at - I’m just not sure In what capacity as school aren’t being particularly helpful…

The very act of giving him a choice might have helped. Can feel empowering.

Having initially said that he didn’t want to accept the new school place we have spent the last week discussing pros/cons of both schools and visited the new school this week. My son was nervous but so enthusiastic to look round - the school felt vibrant and friendly, not traditional and rigid like his current grammar. He was beaming as we left - a face that I’ve not seen for a while.

I’m not sure it’s the magic answer to all his problems but the thought of a new start and being in a mixed school, with a more creative bias seems to be the answer at the moment.

Thank you for all your input and being a sounding board xx

That sounds really positive! Good for him

Definitely sounds worth a shot and great he will be going in feeling positive! Good luck to him xx

Good luck to him in his new school!