Move from boys grammar to mixed comp??

[HalleyH]

Apologies in advance for what I’m sure will be a long post - I’m trying to sort things in my own mind and would appreciate knowing your thoughts too…

My son is in year 8 and is one of the older ones in the year. He is at a selective all boys grammar school - he is doing really well academically but has never really settled and hasn’t made any friends. He find the alpha male/footbally boys environment hard.

Is is very creative and quirky and doesn’t seem to fit the traditional mainstream grammar mould. He has been struggling a lot with his mental health in terms of anxiety and depression - often finding it hard/impossible to be at school. We are also currently looking at an autism diagnosis.

Outside of school it feels as though he can be his true self and has a large group of friends out of school - a mixture of both sexes, but most of them older than him.

His group of older friends are also equally quirky and creative and all go to the local mixed comprehensive.

After being on the waiting list for a year a space has finally come up at the mixed comprehensive - we are unsure what to do…

He is achieving great grades at his current grammar but is ultimately unhappy. But will it be better in Year 9 when he starts his GCSEs and is in smaller classes? Will he push himself at the mixed comprehensive? I’m worried that he’ll still not fit in as he’ll be academically ahead. And the friends he has at the school are all in older year groups. But we don’t know until we try… but if we try and move schools then we can’t move back again…

I feel so torn as to what is best… I need a crystal ball!

I think the lack of friends is the overriding problem in his eyes.
But all of his current friends (outside of school) are much older than him - I wonder if he’ll ever gel with his own year group? He’s always been mature beyond his years.

I’d move him. 3 year is a long time if he’s unhappy. He’s old enough to know what he wants if he wants to move, then let him.

he will flourish more academically if he’s happy. Now of course there’s no guarantee he will be happier, but at least you’ll have given it a shot.

do ask if he can do a taster.

also ask the grammar if they’ll keep his place for a few weeks.

my friend’s son had this option although it was year 7. He left due to mental health but the original school (selective grammar) kept his space open to him for a term. Not sure your school would do this - but it’s worth at least asking. They can only say no

good luck.

I’ll definitely ask about the taster - I think that’s the only way to get any real answer as to whether it’s the school for him.
I don’t think his current school would hold a space open as I know they have a huge waiting list.
He’s miserable, low and hates school at the moment - moving him can’t make the sitauation any worse - which seeing it written down makes me think that I’ve finally answered my own question and we need to give him the opportunity to decide…

Our school also has a huge waiting list. You could ask if they could hold it for a week or two. You have nothing ti lose by asking.

and yes, if he’s that miserable, I’d move him

good luck. You’ve thought about this and you’re doing the best you can. You don’t have a glass ball, so you can only do you best .

good luck!

Nope. Not to a secondary modern. He's still a boy and not able to assess his options and a secondary modern is a hard no unless you've no other options. That's is NOT a comp.

I get the smaller/different classes with gcse options but presumably most the core subjects will still be the same classes.

It sounds like to me it would be the perfect time to move him just before GCSEs start. However, I would definitely ask about whether you could get a taster day (could you do that now before school finishes for summer).

I would also speak to the head of year/tutor group leader potentially at both schools to get a feel for the other students and if there are other pupils that sound similar to him.

FWIW my niece had a tough time throughout secondary and never found her group of friends in girls grammar. There were other factors like covid but it really knocked her confidence. She moved to a big mixed comp for sixth form and has loved it, had tonnes of friends straight away. We were all so pleased and would have done the move way sooner if we had known. My worries would be the behaviour/potential bullying in lower school in some of the big secondaries. We weren’t as worried for sixth form as by that time kids more mature and most the disinterested ones left. I would suss out the new school for behaviour etc, it sounds smaller and in demand so hopefully good!

Yes he might not get such a dazzling set of GCSEs but if he’s bright he will still do really well regardless of the school. GCSEs don’t matter too much once you have a levels as well.

Thank you - I’ve gone round and round in circles!

Can I ask your reasons for being so against a secondary modern?

Yes the core subjects at his current school would still be classes of 30. It would just be his options that would be smaller classes.

i think he’s got it in his head that he hates his current school so much that he’ll never like it. At least the new school and the move would be entirely his decision and hopefully a fresh start at the beginning of the school year in September.

@HalleyH A secondary modern won't have a proper top set. All those kids have been creamed off so the level they aim for is much lower. They're primarily trying to get everyone to pass and that's probably not where your son is aiming. Children largely swim with the fish they're in with. A proper comp with a top set would be fine. My experience of secondary moderns is they are fairly dire at serving bright kids.

The problem we’ve got is that we’ve only got a choice of 2 schools - the big traditional boys grammar where he is, or the mixed secondary modern which is much smaller and has more of an arty/creative background.
Good grades or a happy child??

He thinks he will be happier there but I'd really question it. This could really impact his future. What's the standard of behaviour like at the SM? The one DD went to was properly shocking. She did eventually move to a grammar and it was like a different world in terms of low level and not so low level disruption.

My ds is in an all boys grammar. He is absolutely fine but it can be a very tough place to be. He has just finished his GCSEs. Years 10 and 11 are really tough years - if you are unhappy at school and have few friends it could be bloody awful.

We do know a fair few boys who have really struggled on and off throughout their time in the grammar school. But they have all struggled on. Just about coping.

My dd is also in Year 8 and we moved her earlier this year. Different scenario to yours as we moved from all girls to mixed (both non grammar). But like your ds, dd was utterly miserable at her previous school. She tried and tried to find new friends, new interests etc etc. But it was square peg in a round hole stuff. She was so unhappy and losing interest in all the things that she enjoys. Lots of anxiety and related medical conditions. It was impacting on the whole family unit. So we bit the bullet and moved her.

It was by far the very best decision we could have made. We approached it as a fresh start. She is happy, joining in with lots of clubs, up at 6.30 every morning without complaint.

I would suggest going to look at the school again ASAP. But essentially, don’t be afraid to move him.

I'd move him in a heartbeat. Three years to be unhappy is too long. I wouldn't mess about with a teen child's mental health at all.

Three year GCSE course at current school also misses out a year of some option subjects and implies a bit of an exam factory (GCSEs are supposed to be a 2 year course, and Ofsted frown on starting in Y9). On the flip side, he might be desperate to drop some subjects, so Y9 at currently school might be quite a change. I'd give him the option, and move him if he wants.

Moving now will be better than say in 12 months if he remains unhappy. A few slightly lower GCSE grades would be no disaster if the other school is not as good in one or two subjects.

Also think better to be choosing options next year in my opinion.

If you are in an 11+ area is there not another grammar you could try , a mixed one perhaps . If he gets annoyed with other children’s behaviour you will likely get more of that at the high school .

While it’s easy to say it’s a secondary modern - that rather assumes a system where all children sit the 11+ - I live in a grammar area and many kids who probably could have passed weren’t put in for the exam. Often because parents didn’t feel the grammar would be best socially for them, or they were particularly interested/strong in areas the grammars aren’t good at (eg music or dance). It is perfectly possible there’s a mix of abilities at the comp. Definitely worth having a conversation with the comp about the top end and how they stretch the top group.

What’s the problem here? He’s academically able - that’s not going to disappear if he moves. He’s less likely to do well if he’s unhappy.

The only thing I would double check would be that he can do his (current) preferred choice of gcses at the new school.

Academic doesn't always mean better.

Actually OP, if your ds had friends at the comp that would swing it, but from what you’ve said he’s got friends in other year groups at the comp, not in his own year. You could move him and he still won’t find his tribe.

have you spoken to the grammar about him? Do they have lunchtime/after school clubs for art /his interests to give him a chance to get to know the other kids like him at the grammar?

Yes I think we definitely need to ask how the top sets are stretched.
My son is our eldest and it’s just ‘the done thing’ to strive to be at the local grammar. It’s an excellent school academically but just not the fit for our son. If we knew then what we know now I don’t think we’d have chosen the school. (No bad reflection on the school but not the one for him)

Children perform best academically when they are happy - move him . He's obviously bright so should be in top sets for subjects . Good time to move him so he can settle before GCSEs .
Grammar school education is excellent but being happy is more important in the long term . Also comprehensives can be better on the SEN side as they deal with more of it .

I say this with the hindsight of older kids. You are about to go into peak hormone years when any neurodiversity or unhappiness will be magnified. I’ve lost count of the kids I know in academic schools whose GCSEs fell apart due to unhappiness.

I’d give him the choice. If he stays he makes an active choice. If he moves he knows he will need to make the very best of the new school. It could be the making of him.

I think it is very very naive to assume a comp in a grammar area has LESS alpha boys. The exact opposite I have found to be true. You usually get more neurodiverse and quieter kids in the grammars. If he doesn't have any friends in his actual year group in the other school there is a big chance he won't make friends there either.