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Teenagers

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Original poster

Move from boys grammar to mixed comp??

123 replies

HalleyH · 29/06/2024 15:41

Apologies in advance for what I’m sure will be a long post - I’m trying to sort things in my own mind and would appreciate knowing your thoughts too…

My son is in year 8 and is one of the older ones in the year. He is at a selective all boys grammar school - he is doing really well academically but has never really settled and hasn’t made any friends. He find the alpha male/footbally boys environment hard.

Is is very creative and quirky and doesn’t seem to fit the traditional mainstream grammar mould. He has been struggling a lot with his mental health in terms of anxiety and depression - often finding it hard/impossible to be at school. We are also currently looking at an autism diagnosis.

Outside of school it feels as though he can be his true self and has a large group of friends out of school - a mixture of both sexes, but most of them older than him.

His group of older friends are also equally quirky and creative and all go to the local mixed comprehensive.

After being on the waiting list for a year a space has finally come up at the mixed comprehensive - we are unsure what to do…

He is achieving great grades at his current grammar but is ultimately unhappy. But will it be better in Year 9 when he starts his GCSEs and is in smaller classes? Will he push himself at the mixed comprehensive? I’m worried that he’ll still not fit in as he’ll be academically ahead. And the friends he has at the school are all in older year groups. But we don’t know until we try… but if we try and move schools then we can’t move back again…

I feel so torn as to what is best… I need a crystal ball!

OP posts:
MigGirl · 30/06/2024 18:03

Be aware that even if the new school don't pick options until next spring, it is very possible that in core subjects like maths, science and English that they will start the GCSE syllabus teaching around Christmas in year 9. This changed when they brought in the new Syllabus in 2016 as it's to much to fit into just 2 years. Most schools start the core subject teaching in year 9 even if parents aren't aware. While some schools tried to bring picking options forward to year 8, Ofsted has really frond on this and my daughters school got marked down for it during their first inspection so changed it back to year 9. Luckily most of the option subject courses are still short enough to fit into year 10&11.

So unless they have the same exam boards he needs to move this term or before Christmas.

I would ask if he could do a few tester days. And also agree that being happy in school is really important.

Cuwins · 30/06/2024 18:22

Definitely prioritise a happy child over academics for me.
However I would want to be sure this school was going to make him happier as otherwise you could end up with neither!
So yes I think a taster day if not 2 is important

Safewater · 30/06/2024 18:23

He gets annoyed if other students don’t listen and behave and I think that behaviour will be even more of an issue in an upper school.

This worries me a bit. Our kids have been through the comp system and behaviour can be and often is an issue, disrupted lessons are very common.

There's been a few comments about secondary moderns not having a competitive top set. I went to a grammar school, in the sixth form we took quite a few kids from the secondary modern to do A levels. They were performing at grammar level. There are always bright kids who don't go to grammar for a million and one reasons.

Ionacat · 30/06/2024 18:25

If he is miserable and hates school then chances are even if he is achieving well at the moment, that will stop especially if he becomes a school refuser. Academics aren’t everything, there’s always tutors. Schools vary so much and if this is a smaller, more nurturing environment he may flourish especially if he has see his friends already there. If it’s a small school, they’ll know people in other years.

Go and visit the secondary modern, take him with you and see if you can do a taster day. Look at the exam results and progress for higher attainers. See what support there is for him. I would then say this is a big decision, we’ll discuss it with you and your opinion is very important and it will be considered carefully and given lots of weight but as adults we’ll make it. If say the progress is poor, and there are reasons, he’ll be part of that discussion and hear them. He must be very unhappy for you to have put him on the waiting list in the first place.

FancyBiscuitsLevel · 30/06/2024 19:09

if behaviour is an issue for him, then find out if they set for all subjects at the comp. He might be with a top set for maths/science/English, but all his other subjects could have a range of abilities and behaviours.

CreateUserNames · 30/06/2024 19:13

HalleyH · 29/06/2024 15:41

Apologies in advance for what I’m sure will be a long post - I’m trying to sort things in my own mind and would appreciate knowing your thoughts too…

My son is in year 8 and is one of the older ones in the year. He is at a selective all boys grammar school - he is doing really well academically but has never really settled and hasn’t made any friends. He find the alpha male/footbally boys environment hard.

Is is very creative and quirky and doesn’t seem to fit the traditional mainstream grammar mould. He has been struggling a lot with his mental health in terms of anxiety and depression - often finding it hard/impossible to be at school. We are also currently looking at an autism diagnosis.

Outside of school it feels as though he can be his true self and has a large group of friends out of school - a mixture of both sexes, but most of them older than him.

His group of older friends are also equally quirky and creative and all go to the local mixed comprehensive.

After being on the waiting list for a year a space has finally come up at the mixed comprehensive - we are unsure what to do…

He is achieving great grades at his current grammar but is ultimately unhappy. But will it be better in Year 9 when he starts his GCSEs and is in smaller classes? Will he push himself at the mixed comprehensive? I’m worried that he’ll still not fit in as he’ll be academically ahead. And the friends he has at the school are all in older year groups. But we don’t know until we try… but if we try and move schools then we can’t move back again…

I feel so torn as to what is best… I need a crystal ball!

Would it be possible to make the decision together? Take the time to visit schools, even try out days etc.

fruitypancake · 30/06/2024 19:19

He will still be bright and able in a new school, got to be worth a chance for enjoying school. What does he want to do ? I would go for it if he is keen

OpizpuHeuvHiyo · 30/06/2024 19:19

If you don't move him now it will be 3 more years.

I have a similar ds currently just ending y10 and retrospectively I wish I had moved him 2 years ago though I didn't know at the time how much more anxious and stressed y9&10 at the grammar would make him, and he doesn't have friends at the comp so less of an attractive opportunity. He's really unhappy at the moment but we just have to stick it out for the year and he will then change for 6th form

Pinkypinkyplonk · 30/06/2024 19:24

Grammars are not the be all and end all of education. A happy child will thrive, and really is what’s most important.

cryinglaughing · 30/06/2024 19:27

If you suspect he is autistic, what is the SEN provision like at the proposed new school?

My dd went to grammar, absolutely hated it but the SEN lady (there was only one), was amazing with her. She fought her corner when she got overwhelmed and angry. Had she been to the local comprehensive, she would have spent a fair time in inclusion because she can come across as downright rude.
I work in the comprehensive and worked very hard with the grammar and with my dd to encourage her to stay there because I knew what would happen otherwise 😬

stickthewellyin · 30/06/2024 19:33

We moved our son between years 8&9, I'll admit I was so worried as the grass isn't always greener but he was so unhappy. It was the best thing we could have done. It's a good year to move as they pick their options in year 9 so if you try and move after that they may not be able to get their first choices plus science GCSE seems to start in year 9.

ThatsGoingToHurt · 30/06/2024 19:36

I went to a single sex school (not a grammar) with a much better reputation than the local school. I was a tomboy and good at maths and science. The girls school was known to be good for English and Arts and was full of cliquey girls into brands and makeup. My parents promised to let me leave if I didn’t like it. I asked at the end of Y8 and they refused. I was miserable and hated school for the next three years. I probably would have got better grades if I hadn't been so l miserable and dragging my self to school everyday. I was frequently ill so I could get some temporary respite from going to school. I resented my parents for decades for their selfishness.

Jellycats4life · 30/06/2024 19:42

cryinglaughing · 30/06/2024 19:27

If you suspect he is autistic, what is the SEN provision like at the proposed new school?

My dd went to grammar, absolutely hated it but the SEN lady (there was only one), was amazing with her. She fought her corner when she got overwhelmed and angry. Had she been to the local comprehensive, she would have spent a fair time in inclusion because she can come across as downright rude.
I work in the comprehensive and worked very hard with the grammar and with my dd to encourage her to stay there because I knew what would happen otherwise 😬

This is the million dollar question.

My autistic DD is so well looked after at her grammar, but she arrived with a diagnosis and their SEN department primarily deal with high achieving ND girls.

Support at primary was poor, and I couldn’t imagine a comp being much different. In other words, they have bigger fish to fry and a high achieving autistic kid just wouldn’t be on their radar.

I’d be wary of an “out of the frying pan, into the fire” situation when moving schools.

Nonameoclue · 30/06/2024 19:54

Have you checked that the GCSEs he wants to do are available at the upper school? For example triple science? Some upper schools in Buckinghamshire only offer double science. This may not bother him, but if it does you need to check. Also check whether the upper school does a broad selection of A levels, or he'll be needing to go straight back to the GS for 6th form.
Some of the Buckinghamshire upper schools really are very poor (some are great!). I'm assuming you know that the one you are interested in, whether it's Buckinghamshire or not, is decent.

pastaandpesto · 30/06/2024 19:54

In your position, I think the only thing that would make me hesitate is how good the comprehensive school is at managing behavior. If behaviour is well managed, the academics will largely follow. But if there is a lot of low level disruption, I'd be concerned that it could be a frying pan/fire situation.

I think a taster day would be very, very helpful.

Johnhasalongmoustache · 30/06/2024 19:56

DO NOT MOVE HIM
if he’s quirky at a boys grammar ..

speak to the head of year about what they can do

Original poster
HalleyH · 30/06/2024 20:03

Johnhasalongmoustache · 30/06/2024 19:56

DO NOT MOVE HIM
if he’s quirky at a boys grammar ..

speak to the head of year about what they can do

We’ve been speaking fairly regularly with the Y7 and Y8 heads of year for the last 18 months - lots of help and support has been put in place, but ultimately my son doesn’t fit in. He’s got no friends there and is desperately sad and low. CAMHS have referred him for counselling for anxiety and depression. I’m sure he would get great grades if if continued at the grammar but I’m not sure if the long term affect it will have on his mental health. He is a shell of the boy I know…

OP posts:
Original poster
HalleyH · 30/06/2024 20:05

pastaandpesto · 30/06/2024 19:54

In your position, I think the only thing that would make me hesitate is how good the comprehensive school is at managing behavior. If behaviour is well managed, the academics will largely follow. But if there is a lot of low level disruption, I'd be concerned that it could be a frying pan/fire situation.

I think a taster day would be very, very helpful.

Yes I need to do some homework and see what behaviour is like. Luckily we know quite a few parents there.

OP posts:
Original poster
HalleyH · 30/06/2024 20:06

Nonameoclue · 30/06/2024 19:54

Have you checked that the GCSEs he wants to do are available at the upper school? For example triple science? Some upper schools in Buckinghamshire only offer double science. This may not bother him, but if it does you need to check. Also check whether the upper school does a broad selection of A levels, or he'll be needing to go straight back to the GS for 6th form.
Some of the Buckinghamshire upper schools really are very poor (some are great!). I'm assuming you know that the one you are interested in, whether it's Buckinghamshire or not, is decent.

They do double science rather than the triple science which his grammar offer which would suit him. Both 6th forms have offerings of subjects he would chose.

OP posts:
Original poster
HalleyH · 30/06/2024 20:08

ThatsGoingToHurt · 30/06/2024 19:36

I went to a single sex school (not a grammar) with a much better reputation than the local school. I was a tomboy and good at maths and science. The girls school was known to be good for English and Arts and was full of cliquey girls into brands and makeup. My parents promised to let me leave if I didn’t like it. I asked at the end of Y8 and they refused. I was miserable and hated school for the next three years. I probably would have got better grades if I hadn't been so l miserable and dragging my self to school everyday. I was frequently ill so I could get some temporary respite from going to school. I resented my parents for decades for their selfishness.

This is what worries me - I feel as though he’s given it his best shot for 2 years and it’s not worked sadly. I know secondary school isn’t all fun and games but it shouldn’t make anyone feel as miserable as he is.

OP posts:
PardonMee · 30/06/2024 20:09

He should do a taster week and then he can decide. He’s bright so no need to worry about the academic side, personally I’d focus on his well-being.

Usually grammars have a high percentage of bright autistic children.

Is he in any school clubs?

Original poster
HalleyH · 30/06/2024 20:11

Ionacat · 30/06/2024 18:25

If he is miserable and hates school then chances are even if he is achieving well at the moment, that will stop especially if he becomes a school refuser. Academics aren’t everything, there’s always tutors. Schools vary so much and if this is a smaller, more nurturing environment he may flourish especially if he has see his friends already there. If it’s a small school, they’ll know people in other years.

Go and visit the secondary modern, take him with you and see if you can do a taster day. Look at the exam results and progress for higher attainers. See what support there is for him. I would then say this is a big decision, we’ll discuss it with you and your opinion is very important and it will be considered carefully and given lots of weight but as adults we’ll make it. If say the progress is poor, and there are reasons, he’ll be part of that discussion and hear them. He must be very unhappy for you to have put him on the waiting list in the first place.

Thank you - all very useful.
Hes already refusing school and I feel that it’s just going to get worse as he’s so low.
I think asking about taster days and finding out about the high achievers and behaviour is def too of our list

OP posts:
Newgirls · 30/06/2024 20:14

It sounds like you, him and school have tried many things. It can feel daunting to ‘step off the path’ and go in a new direction, especially if that path was a desirable one, but if he’s already refusing school what have you got to lose.

Sandalwoodrose · 30/06/2024 20:15

Have you looked into what exam results are like at the mixed school?

ihatecoffee · 30/06/2024 20:17

Is there an alternative grammar school?
Some areas like Bucks will have a few more grammars to choose from?

Failing that, could you afford private?