The way my son speaks to me is making me despise him

[Teenshardwork]

I know how horrible that sounds and I feel horrible.

Teen boy is almost 16 and he's so rude. Tbh though he's always been rude and cheeky since he started primary school. I don't think any of his teachers were keen on him. I know that's a sad and awful thing to say. Even though he didn't do anything wrong as such, he didn't get into big trouble, he just has this aura of not really caring/being out for himself. It always felt like they couldn't find anything nice to say. You know at primary school they'll always say things about a child being a good role model, kind, a good friends, always trying their best. There was none of that. I've always tried my best to correct rudeness it's not like I just don't care. Even though he could be cheeky he was a happy go lucky, loving little boy.

Once he turned 12-13 he changed.

Even now he doesn't get into any trouble. He's ok at school, not out getting up to no good, he's polite to other people. But he's so disgustingly rude at home.

Everything is met with "yeah and..." said in a sarcastic way. He tells me to piss off at times. Always has to have to last word. Tells me to stop moaning, to calm down. He scowls all the time. All over normal things like me asking him to make his bed.

He's only happy when he's getting something he wants. It is as though he doesn't consider anyone else's feelings. He'll be horribly rude then try to start a conversation about what he'd like for Christmas. He brings the atmosphere of the whole house down.

I do my best to correct him. I've taken his console, his phone. I call him back and make him speak properly, make him apologise. I follow through with making him do things I've asked. He gets better for a few days then slips back into his usual ways. He's got a terrible attitude to our belongings.

I'm so scared that this is just who he is or that I've failed. He's growing up and I can't live with a grown man who speak to me with such contempt.

His sibling is nothing like him but my son's attitude is upsetting his younger brother causing arguments.

I've always spent loads of time with him.

Even when his brother arrived I took ds1 out for breakfast or McDonald's or to the cinema. I spent hours reading to him in bed. We watched tv together. We rode our bikes. I've taken him to every hobby he's been into. I've helped him clean his room. Decorated it how he wanted it and got him involved. Done homework together.

I still do although obviously he doesn't want to do as much these days but I take him to Greggs I do things without his brother as I do for each of them individually.

He's always nice when he's getting something he wants.

Maybe, he's a bright lad. Whether he'll push himself remains to be seen.

I'm praying that college and a part time job with grow him up a bit.

OP - I'm prepared for all the eye rolls, MN comments I'm sure I'll get for this, but I'm going to say it anyway -

Is there any possibility in YOUR mind or your sense, not anyone else's, just yours, that your son might possibly be neurodivergent. I know it is absolutely not the answer to every teenage nightmare. But what you wrote there really did sound incredibly familiar. And if people on here have no direct experience then you have no clue how often this ' flies under the radar '

This is what sounded incredibly familiar to me -

The cheekiness, it's funny and a good mask often in the run up to teenage years.
Your feeling that he is/was disliked by teachers but couldn't always put your finger on it
Generally rude and sarcastic
Always has to have the last word
Doesn't seem to matter what you say or do
You feel like you're to blame ( so you obviously will have tried a mountain of approaches to no avail)

Many parents have no conscious clue until the later years when behaviour may be difficult. I've heard scenarios like this before. So many people say to my son there's no way you're autistic because he masked so well. I don't like these terms but theres something in what you might call ' high functioning autism ' called PDA. It's an overwhelming need to be right, to not be told what to do, to have autonomy and control, highly argumentative. Absolutely always needs to have the last word.

I accept this might not be the case at all. It could be all sorts of things. So I'm not for one minute saying this is what is happening here. I think it's only common sense to just consider ALL possibilities.

Whatever is going on, Neurodivergent or not, I would never be able to tolerate being spoken to badly for long. There is no excuse for you to be treated badly and your negative feelings are only human.

I could write most of this word for word about my DD15. Similar to what other posters have said, I have to pick my battles. A lot of the eye rolling and attitude I will ignore completely, but there have been times where she's swore at me or been extra nasty and that's when she knows she has crossed a line and loses devices or privileges.

I have had conversations around the differences between her priorities and my priorities, acknowledging that she isn't going to care about the same things I do but that if she wants me to facilitate her priorities (e.g. paying for her contract phone, giving her lifts to her friends houses, giving her extra money for cinema etc, allowing sleepovers) then she needs to facilitate my priorities (us all leaving the house in the morning on time and relatively not stressed, bringing pates down from her room regularly). It works for a while and then she reverts so I have to have the conversation again.

Though, the conversation is always had during a calm time, usually while driving or cooking, and not in the midst of whatever the argument is.

I can only hope that this period will pass and she will become a normal and tolerable human being soon. There are glimmers of hope in there when she is calm and engaged she can be very witty, kind, caring and generally great to be around, so I try my best to cling to those moments and ignore the other stuff.

It's really hard and at times it really affects my mental health. So I do understand how difficult this is for you and I'm just sorry I can't say anything more useful!

Your later posts have me thinking that DH doesn’t have your back here. I cannot imagine my DH tolerating DS speaking to me like that, although DH is very conflict avoidant.
Possibly you need to speak to DH about pulling his weight with this. It’s not ok that if he’s out, he doesn’t deal with it. DS needs to know that DH won’t put up with DS being disrespectful to you.
I know that does come across as maybe patronising and sexist, but DH won’t have to say much to let DS know that he’s on your side. Boys need to have strong male role models who will speak up when necessary. It’s not OK for DH to let all this wash over without objecting.

You have to learn to disengage.

Make it so that his words aren't possible to a) have an effect and b) give him a reason to be rude.

So "where's my football socks" is answered with "wherever you left them"

If he starts with "you should have washed them" etc just look him square,y in the eye and say "why? You aren't a baby you can wash your own stuff - stop nagging me".

If he's made to see his behaviour won't get him a reaction or give him what he wants there becomes less of a point to it for him.

My go to has always been to allow teens to argue with themselves in an empty room and eventually they start to feel like the dick they look

OP, reading your initial post I believed that you were a single parent.

My two eldest who are now 20 and 18 and a half were absolutely awful aged13-16 and my 15 year old is currently going through it.Its only been my 17 who's been fine through those ages.

I didn't enjoy parenting them throughout the grief they gave me and my 15 year is currently a nightmare going through PDA.

However the light at the end of the tunnel is that my two eldest got their acts together and are doing really well.

My eldest is in the armed forces and my 18 yr old has gotten into all the universities they've applied to and has a steady part time job.

Well it's a possibility because I'm pretty certain that I am autistic although I don't have a diagnosis.

Ds hasn't had any of the struggles that I did though. I've never suspected.

He actually loves school, always has. He's not some troublemaker. Academically has always done well.

It's hard to explain I just always got the impression his teachers didn't like him much but didn't have anything bad to say, but nothing good either.

His year 6 teacher got the best out of him, she told me she thought he was misunderstood 🤷‍♀️

Yes, I did, too.

I do think your husband is quite happy being the laidback guy, leaving all the insults to you.

Why isn't he going to talk to your son to tell him that it's completely unacceptable to talk to anyone, let alone his mother, like that? Why doesn't he refuse to take him to football because he's been so rude?

This is essentially what we keep doing.

If it helps it does pass! Nothing wrong with reminding ds you are human and he is affecting your mh...
Dd's are 17 and 18. And have morphed into lovely people!!

We can't really refuse to take him to football because if he doesn't go he'll get dropped from the team.

I know people will say that's natural consequences but I don't think him losing his hobby will help anything. He loves his hobby and it makes him happy.

I know technically he doesn't deserve lifts for rudeness but I need to find another way.

This.

DP wouldn’t let either of our children disrespect me like this. He’s being a rude arsehole because you’re a ‘little woman’ who makes his meals and cleans his dirty socks, and no other male challenges him. He wouldn’t speak to any men he respected like this.

Do what your DH does, aka very little for him. From now on, he’s old enough that if he wants food, clean socks or anything else, he can do it for himself. My stock response if he whinges would be ‘why would I do anything for somebody who treats me like dirt?’

He won’t be dropped from the team if he misses a couple of sessions - enough to give him the jolt he needs.

I think that you have to make visible what he is doing/saying and penalize him for it. Give him some clear guidelines: this is a red zone/yellow zone/green zone behavior. One red zone a week is tolerable but one a day is not. More than one red zone behavior per week and you don’t get any favors like lifts to football.

Stop doing his dishes or laundry.

It feels incredibly patronising of me so I'm sorry to sound insensitive. Now you've said that I really think that is your answer. If you believe you are, I believe 100% that you are.

The stereotypes are so awful and outdated. I appreciate that I have used massive generalisations myself there. Every single thing there sounds like PDA.

My son is always called 'popular' in his reports. I see the struggles way beyond that though. He isn't a troublemaker. Quite a few have called him misunderstood. He loves football.

If you read into PDA ( horrible term) the approach isn't entirely the same as another NT person. That is probably why you feel like it's all your fault.

I don't believe one element of this is down to you or your husband tbh OP.

We had to go private for assessment in the end because no one would listen to me. Best thing we did for everyone.

And there is no ‘other way’. If he disrespects you, he doesn’t get favours in return, and that includes being taken to football. You’re being far too soft on him. Carry on taking him if you want but don’t complain in 10 years that he’s a sexist pig who only phones when he wants something and treats his girlfriend like crap.

At 16 you are wasting your time correcting him.

Stepping back and consequences are the way to deal with this.

Stepping back - stop nagging about his bed. It's his problem.

Teach him how to do laundry - make a video if necessary or write instructions on a sheet of paper and stick them up by the machine. After that, any questions about his laundry get met with "that's your responsibility now".

Each time he is rude to you refuse to do something for him and make clear the reason why. For example say; you were rude to me. I'm not doing favours for someone who is rude to me. The next favour you ask for the answer will be no".

Then follow through.

As you say - he is nice when he wants something

I know what you're saying. I don't think that ds thinks I'm a 'little woman'. He doesn't treat dh any different. It's not that Dh doesn't give a shit he's at work a lot when these things are happening.

Believe me I follow up. If plates aren't scraped I call him back. He has to help around the house he does have to do things for himself. I'm not a mug.

I haven't just let ds away with it believe me. I've confiscated his things. I have not taken him to hobbies. He missed a scout trip once for rudeness. It doesn't work 🤷‍♀️ he sorts himself out for a few days even weeks then it's back to old ways.

I'm so fed up and overwhelmed. Some people say he'll grow out of it, some say he'll get worse, some suggest there's more to it.

He sounds very like my now in his 30s eldest DS. Perfectly bright, did well at school, very gloomy and unengaging with teachers etc. He would never just DO what he was told, he would die on every hill rather than even doing something for himself. My other son is autistic but much more stereotypical and easily diagnosed very young, of average intelligence, and such a dream angel child to raise.

I've just paid for psychological tests for asd and adhd, I'm convinced he's got both but he flew right under the radar due to being so bright that he was top of the class with zero effort.

It shouldn't be a surprise to me as my entire family is ND 🤷🏼‍♂️

I have to smother him with affection and attention as he goes off the rails very easily if he feels unloved / ignored. It's very very difficult and I wish I could turn the clock back and have had him tested much much younger

OP, autism is highly genetic. They will always look at the parents when assessing and young person. It doesn't mean he will be the same as you or experience the same type of challenges. Every person is different.

This is not your fault and nothing to do with your approach. I can hear in every thing you wrote how defeated you feel because you can't understand why nothing has worked.

I'll bet you anything your son knows there is a difference there and that will play into things. He won't fully understand it if it's never been considered before. But inside, he will know he's different and that will play into things.

What generally tends to work in the PDA profile ( every Autistic person is different though of course) is giving choices and control and having a relationship that's a bit more like 2 adults than a parent child. I know it sounds mad but that's the only thing that works.

Do you want to clean your room now or this evening after tea?
Are you going to do those dishes now or in an hour?

With the way he's talking to you, I'd talk to my son like I would a partner.' This is how it makes me feel when you do this. I can't do nice things for you when you speak so unkindly to me. Do I ever speak to you like this? Your language actually feels abusive to me. What is going on behind all this? I want you to talk to me and I want us to find a way to work through this between us'

So the above approach uses collaboration rather than do what I say - which you already know doesn't work.

I don't think it's a good idea to keep taking him to football if he's speaking abusively. It's not going to help him. Try a collaborative approach and just hear what he says then go from there. You don't have to be harsh with him. Just something like ' how can I take you to your football, wash your things, make sure your football stuff is ready for you when you speak so awfully to me. If you were an adult, this would be seen as abusive behaviour. How can we find a way where you can communicate how you feel/ what's going on without telling me to piss off'

Loads of helpful advice online and FB Autistic parents/ PDA groups. I learnt everything from them. The Autistic Adults groups are great. Incredibly honest hold no punches advice. ❤️

Oh yes to what Pantaloons said!!! I make every problem a 'we' problem on a really basic level. 'it's really difficult for us that our clothes aren't clean, i wonder if we could think up a solution together' 🤪 (even though, obviously, MY clothes are clean) it's nuts, but it short circuits the opposition (which I believe is fear based).

Oh just to add.

When I refuse to do things for him because sure he's been rude.

He says I'm rude to him. So he'll say "you're rude to me, you keep moaning at me for no reason". He makes things up that I've done. He goads me until I shout then says "see, look you're shouting at me for no reason".

I've spoken to him about all of this in depth and how it's affecting me and everyone in the house.

I'm scared that it will get to a point eventually where I'll have to tell him to leave

Because we are systematically gaslit at every turn if the child isn't rocking, wearing headphones and lining up cars. Absolutely not your fault in any way you couldn't do it sooner. ❤️

I feel thankful we live in an age where more and more people are becoming aware. I imagine the true prevalence of Autism and ADHD is beyond anything we imagine.