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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Physical fight with teen boy

138 replies

Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 18:10

I can’t believe I’m typing this.

He is 12, he has autism and is also medicated for adhd. His meds wear off after school and he punched his brother as they got in the car. He deliberately antagonised him, his brother shouted back and so he punched him, hard, so as I think he will bruise.

We got home and I said he was on a screen ban. He had a lock on his door and he went in and locked it. He knows he is not supposed to lock it unless he’s going out. I have a key but it was in the cupboard. I can control screens via the router so I did this and then he came downstairs. I gave him a couple of jobs to do and I went up and took his keys and carried on cooking dinner. I suspect he wanted to lock his room so he can get on some other device somehow, he’s very tech savvy.

I tried de-escalating, distracting, walking away, humour, anything. But I wasn’t prepared to just hand over his keys.

He started to cry saying he wanted his keys back and then started swearing. I said that that wasn’t going to get him anywhere and he grabbed a ladle and threw it.

I said I absolutely would not be handing his keys back, he could go back to his room and there would be no screens.

He stood in front of me swearing and shouting “give me my fucking keys woman, give them to me now you fucking stupid woman give me my keys.” I stayed calm and he carried on getting closer into my face and I said “if you carry on swearing into my face I shall slap you.” And he said “fuck you” and I slapped him on the cheek.

He went bezerk and punched me to the ground. I ended up on the kitchen floor with him standing over me. Im really really sore all down one side and on my arm, and very shaken. He’s gone to his room and I’ve stopped crying now.

I have no idea what to do. I shouldn’t have slapped him. In my entire life I’ve never ever been physically battered like this.

Im on my own with them, their dad is hopeless and lives an hour away.

OP posts:
Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:18

Ok. I’ll email the adhd nurse tonight.

What do I do tonight though? Give him his screens back? Or his keys? Or nothing?

OP posts:
ShowUs · 27/04/2023 19:19

No judgement but the second you threatened to hit him and then did so, you told him that it was an ok way to behave.

How will he understand that physical violence is unacceptable if you are using this as a way to get him to do what you want?
He will do the exact same thing.

Once everyone has calmed down you need to apologise for hitting him and explain that physical violence is never the answer.

You can ask him how what will help him if he starts deregulating but chances are it’s his hormones that are making him act out (I work with SEND students and puberty is when their behaviour gets worse like NT teens).

You cannot give into him but you also need to keep yourself safe.

My friend has an extremely violent, non verbal autistic son who is over 6ft and 16 stone whereas she is 5ft and a size 8.
She has locks on all of the doors and she has keys for them hidden around.
If worst comes to worst she is able to lock him (or herself) in a room to keep herself safe. He will trash the room unfortunately but it’s better than her.
There is also the police.

Do not be afraid to threaten with the police or even ring them if needed.
This situation was slightly different as you hit him first.

The main thing is that you never hit him or threaten to hit him again.

ShowUs · 27/04/2023 19:19

Continue with your punishment as before.

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:20

I’ve just spoken to him briefly and he is not at all sorry.

OP posts:
beeskipa · 27/04/2023 19:21

Lots of people not understanding ADHD in this thread.

I'm sorry OP - that's really scary and you know already why it escalated the way it did and the triggers. Unfortunately I think the best option is to speak to him when things are calmer, apologise for your part, and expect an apology for his - I'm not sure (living with someone with ADHD and PDA traits) what else you can do: I'm sure he's full of guilt now and as you say - it's a reaction. I'd think about getting him into ADHD coaching to help manage his reactions to things and getting a meds change.

TheHandmaiden · 27/04/2023 19:21

What an absolute non surprise

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:23

Those of you with specific adhd/asd understanding and experience, please keep talking!

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:26

I mean threatening to slap him was never going to be a good idea. You know that of course. I think this level of violence is just not something that can be come back from. I said this on another thread, but so many parents of kids who have SEN don’t talk about violence in the home because it’s seem as ‘shameful’ by a lot of people. Or even just felt like that by the parent. I think it sounds like he has a very violent attitude, things like screaming ‘you stupid woman’ and so on. I would report it to SS and demand help. Say you can’t keep him in the house if it reoccurs.

I would also look at either a ban or severe restrictions on screen time. I know this is unpopular but (through my son) I know so many kids with autism and ADHD who are obviously totally addicted and it rules the family and does not improve the kids’ behaviour, leading to violent tantrums and inappropriate behaviours.

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:29

Also, might be obvious, but I would role model apologising too. When my son was about 6/7 he’d have screaming violent meltdowns. A couple of times I just couldn’t cope and would shout back. I would always make a point when it was de-escalated of saying ‘I’m sorry I shouted - shouting at family is unacceptable and we don’t do it because it makes people sad.’

The way I see it it’s very hard for the child to feel sorry if you’ve met them as an equal and joined in the chaos/violence/bad behaviour. The fact is that he was in a rage and you threatened to slap him in the face - to him he might not feel sorry as he was hit first.

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:31

I won’t be “reporting him to social services.”

What exactly do you think they might do????

I’ll tell you shall I? They would suggest a parenting course, and a meds review. That’s it.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 27/04/2023 19:33

So what's best now will vary depending on the level of understanding your son has.

The easiest way to respond to a situation in which someone with asd/adhd has been violent is simply to reinforce the rule that it's not ok to hit people.

There are various social stories out there that work on reinforcing that rule.

Then, for some teenagers they understand that what they did wasn't ok, and they can then discuss the consequences and accept them (detention if in school, apologise for the hurt to the other person, do dishes for other person etc).

Some teenagers with asd/adhd are sufficiently anxious/don't have enough understanding that consequences are either meaningless (like for a 6 month old) or will trigger more violence (anxiety spiralling into fight/flight).

Your situation is more complex because you also hit him. So you need to decide whether to go with the violence is never ok (advantage easy to understand - disadvantage you need to apologise). Or go with violence is ok if you are a parent (harder to justify and harder for him to understand)

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:33

Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:31

I won’t be “reporting him to social services.”

What exactly do you think they might do????

I’ll tell you shall I? They would suggest a parenting course, and a meds review. That’s it.

Well I think they will offer support, as they do in any case where there is domestic abuse or violence in the home. Every member of the family was assaulted. That’s not normal. I think reporting it to social services is entirely appropriate. And for what it’s worth, I did not say ‘report him to social services.’ I said ‘report it.’ Meaning report that things have reached breaking point/crisis and there was serious physical assault in the home.

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:35

In my experience too of ‘what can they do’ there is plenty! They can offer alternative care or look at options for residential care if a child is not safe in the family home, they can assist with respite, they can offer appropriate courses for parents so it doesn’t escalate to physical assault. It’s not some ridiculous suggestion to say that if it is escalating to assault in the family home it’s time to involve social services.

TomeTome · 27/04/2023 19:36

Why does he have a lock on his door?
How often do they hit each other and have you ever hit your other son?
Do you drive them too School as well?

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:36

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:33

Well I think they will offer support, as they do in any case where there is domestic abuse or violence in the home. Every member of the family was assaulted. That’s not normal. I think reporting it to social services is entirely appropriate. And for what it’s worth, I did not say ‘report him to social services.’ I said ‘report it.’ Meaning report that things have reached breaking point/crisis and there was serious physical assault in the home.

Show quote history

Ok well that isn’t how it works. As a part of their EHCP we requested a social care assessment and we don’t even nearly meet a threshold of concern.

I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Report it to whom? The adhd nurse I’ve already emailed?

And I know it’s not “domestic abuse” it’s a neurodivergent tween who lost his shit.

OP posts:
Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:38

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:35

In my experience too of ‘what can they do’ there is plenty! They can offer alternative care or look at options for residential care if a child is not safe in the family home, they can assist with respite, they can offer appropriate courses for parents so it doesn’t escalate to physical assault. It’s not some ridiculous suggestion to say that if it is escalating to assault in the family home it’s time to involve social services.

And you think any of this is relevant to this particular situation? Seriously? Residential care? That is for challenging behaviour way way way way beyond this.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:39

Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:36

Ok well that isn’t how it works. As a part of their EHCP we requested a social care assessment and we don’t even nearly meet a threshold of concern.

I really wish you knew what you were talking about. Report it to whom? The adhd nurse I’ve already emailed?

And I know it’s not “domestic abuse” it’s a neurodivergent tween who lost his shit.

Show quote history

Erm… it is how it works. If there is violence in the home then it is appropriate to involve social services. They may not have been interested before but if you explained that you threatened to and then did hit your son, followed by him attacking you, they would offer support. And it is domestic violence - everyone in the home was assaulted.

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:39

TomeTome · 27/04/2023 19:36

Why does he have a lock on his door?
How often do they hit each other and have you ever hit your other son?
Do you drive them too School as well?

Because he is obsessive about things ‘staying the same’ and not being touched or moved. Part of his autism.
And he and his twin scuffle quite regularly but generally are well matched.

OP posts:
Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:40

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:39

Erm… it is how it works. If there is violence in the home then it is appropriate to involve social services. They may not have been interested before but if you explained that you threatened to and then did hit your son, followed by him attacking you, they would offer support. And it is domestic violence - everyone in the home was assaulted.

Show quote history

Ok well that’s an interesting perspective, thank you for it.

it is not at all helpful in this situation.

OP posts:
Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:42

Octavia64 · 27/04/2023 19:33

So what's best now will vary depending on the level of understanding your son has.

The easiest way to respond to a situation in which someone with asd/adhd has been violent is simply to reinforce the rule that it's not ok to hit people.

There are various social stories out there that work on reinforcing that rule.

Then, for some teenagers they understand that what they did wasn't ok, and they can then discuss the consequences and accept them (detention if in school, apologise for the hurt to the other person, do dishes for other person etc).

Some teenagers with asd/adhd are sufficiently anxious/don't have enough understanding that consequences are either meaningless (like for a 6 month old) or will trigger more violence (anxiety spiralling into fight/flight).

Your situation is more complex because you also hit him. So you need to decide whether to go with the violence is never ok (advantage easy to understand - disadvantage you need to apologise). Or go with violence is ok if you are a parent (harder to justify and harder for him to understand)

Yes. I agree. I lost it.

As for understanding, he’s holding his own in a demanding mainstream school. He has friends, but is very rigid in his outlook. He is very much what used to be described as Asperger’s with a strong dash of PDA.

OP posts:
Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:42

Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:40

Ok well that’s an interesting perspective, thank you for it.

it is not at all helpful in this situation.

Show quote history

Well I’m sorry you find it unhelpful. I think you are massively minimising though. This is pretty serious stuff and if I was you I’d be trying to get all the help I could. You don’t have to live with this level of violence and aggression in the home - nobody does.

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:44

Kanaloa · 27/04/2023 19:42

Well I’m sorry you find it unhelpful. I think you are massively minimising though. This is pretty serious stuff and if I was you I’d be trying to get all the help I could. You don’t have to live with this level of violence and aggression in the home - nobody does.

Show quote history

Well you’re not me, and I’m not minimising it but im also not magnifying it by framing it in an entirely inappropriate way.

OP posts:
Postapocalypticcowgirl · 27/04/2023 19:45

I get he is not in control, but in a way that is worse, because it means you can't actually be sure he won't do it again. You do need to safeguard his brother, including from seeing violence to you. What do you think will happen if his brother provokes him this evening?

If you can get a medication review, that would be good, but honestly I do think you should contact his dad and say he cannot be in the house tonight. In a way it doesn't matter what his dad thinks about this or does- it's about keeping everyone, including your other child safe.

Maybe if things are not working at yours, then it is worth him trying living with his dad? I understand he'd have to change schools etc, but maybe having his own space separate from his brother would help him? And then you would know that his brother was safe.

Alternatively, perhaps a break for you all over the long weekend would help?

If his dad won't have him, then I think you need to contact SS and explain what has happened.

YukoandHiro · 27/04/2023 19:46

Send him to his dad's immediately. Call social services and get support

Original poster
Reallysoreandhurt · 27/04/2023 19:48

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 27/04/2023 19:45

I get he is not in control, but in a way that is worse, because it means you can't actually be sure he won't do it again. You do need to safeguard his brother, including from seeing violence to you. What do you think will happen if his brother provokes him this evening?

If you can get a medication review, that would be good, but honestly I do think you should contact his dad and say he cannot be in the house tonight. In a way it doesn't matter what his dad thinks about this or does- it's about keeping everyone, including your other child safe.

Maybe if things are not working at yours, then it is worth him trying living with his dad? I understand he'd have to change schools etc, but maybe having his own space separate from his brother would help him? And then you would know that his brother was safe.

Alternatively, perhaps a break for you all over the long weekend would help?

If his dad won't have him, then I think you need to contact SS and explain what has happened.

They’re going to their Dads next weekend.

He cannot cope with a toothbrush being changed, or a different brand of cereal than his usual one.

So a change of school and moving to his dads is the single worst thing that could happen. Plus his school is excellent and he has a great package of support. And his Dad is useless and (funnily enough) ASD with PDA traits, so some posters will be able to predict how that particular scenario will go)

OP posts: