Can a 19 year take her 14 year old sister abroad?

[ZiggysTarbrush]

My incredibly anxious unstreetwise girls (who until now haven't been to the cashpoint by themselves or hopped on a local bus) have decided they are buying plane tickets and hotel rooms for New Year's Eve in Amsterdam.

Now while I applaud their ambitions I've tried explaining it's the travel equivalent of lying in bed for years then announcing they are signing up for a marathon in a few months and will need to get used to doing things by themselves without me chaperoning before anyone thinks it's wise for them to go to a big bad European city where they might get lost, hurt, preyed on by bad folks etc.

Apparently I'm a controlling bully for gently pointing this out.

Question if I do not give consent as her parent can I legally prevent my eldest 19 yr old DD from taking her 14 sister away on a plane/Eurostar?

Ffs.

My 18 and 16 yo were walking ahead of me at Heathrow the other day and security stopped my 16yo and asked their age and if they had consent to travel without a parent. I came around the corner 30 seconds later and all was OK. I asked what would happen if I hadn't been there and he said they look for a letter giving consent and will contact the parent to verify.

For Amsterdam you'd get the train to Central Station and then either tram or just walk to hotel. Everything is clearly marked in English at the airport. The tram system in Amsterdam is brilliant and really easy to use most trams end up at Central Station if you get lost.

Thanks all.

Yes the obvious solution is to accompany them on their adventure but at arms length and stay somewhere different, not be with them at airport etc.

Logistical challenges of dog care and budgets plus the outrage and fury from the younger DD.

The older DD messaged me last night asking if we could talk without her younger sister around about what transitional steps she should take to make the plan happen.

Earlier when I'd pointed out the edge case awful scenarios that could occur such as her becoming incapacitated due to her illness or pain in a foreign land I was shouted at for using her illness against her!

I'll let it lie for a bit, squirrel the passports somewhere (and hope I don't forget where they are!) and see what happens

I only really discovered public transport in my late 40s and it is absolutely liberating! Obviously it depends where you are, but in most places, especially holiday places it gives you an extra layer of options and means you can have a drink

Yes, you can prevent them going, yes I'd prefer it if they'd do something more local first, but sink or swim and I'm sure they'll swim.

The older DD messaged me last night asking if we could talk without her younger sister around about what transitional steps she should take to make the plan happen.

That sounds like she's calming down and has reflected on your concerns. That's positive! I'm not sure I'd hide the passports, if they find out you've done that it'll merely confirm that you don't think they stand any chance of becoming capable.

If she does become incapacitated - travel insurance, contact details of the hotel so you can extend their stay and you jump on a train.

Am I terribly strict compared to others?

I wouldn't be comfortable with a 14yo travelling to Amsterdam to celebrate NYE, even with her 19yo sister.

NYE in Amsterdam is brilliant, but its also nuts. What are they intending to do out there?

The only compromise is to go with them, imo.

The streets will be rowdy, with poppers being let off everywhere outdoors, isn't it going to be too overwhelming for your 19yo?

I'm not saying for a second you should stop your older dd going, she's an adult and can make her own decisions and if this is how she wants to step out independently then that's great. In your shoes though, I'd be making sure there was a supportive plan b in place in case it gets too much for her (as I'm sure you will).

I don't know what a 19yo and 14yo are going to find that they can both do on NYE though..?

Absolutely @Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours I know Amsterdam pretty well myself and plan to move there once the fledglings have flown but NYE there is overwhelming even for those of us not overwhelmed by things such as noisy restaurants. The DD can't even speak on the phone to her doctors ffs without me being spokesperson so this fantasy adventure is leagues out of their comfort zones.

I'm not at all comfortable with it hence the thread being started plus not happy about the aggressive defensive bullying I'm experiencing when attempting to have loving supportive conversations.

Hiding the 14 yr old passport is something I'm ok with. I'm her parent and allowing her to skip off to another country without my blessing is something I'll physically prevent if I need to. I'd rather she was annoyed with me than in a sticky situation abroad.

Yes the obvious solution is to accompany them on their adventure but at arms length and stay somewhere different, not be with them at airport etc.
Surely the obvious solution is to say no? (Re 14 year old). And second solution is for a family trip - not you having to skulk around in another hotel.

@ZiggysTarbrush I hope it didn't come across that I thought you were happy to let your 14yo, I know you're not and i wasnt judging..More that I found it unusual no-one else had mentioned this, it made me wonder if I was the odd one out!

I do think it's fantastic that your older daughter has decided she wants to do this, as an adventure of her own is probably something she needs but in terms of redirecting them to something more appropriate I wonder, do you know what's sparked this desire for NYE in Amsterdam in particular?

I remember v clearly the frustration I felt as a young adult still at home when my mother tried to put me off something and - again not saying you're wrong - I think if you can identify what's inspired this plan you might have a better chance of finding an alternative harmoniously.

Not at all @Onlyhereforthebatshitneighbours I was glad to have your view.

There's no way my 14 is going anywhere with anyone other than a parent right now.

I think they're just testing boundaries and doing what healthy teens need to do. They're probably subconsciously a bit relieved I'm perceived to be the blocker and giving it a Not On Your Nelly

Interesting that they couldn't possibly go on a UK break as 'dead and wasteful' - truth is they probably couldn't cope and they know it but making up reasons to continue the fantasy.

Funny DD19 has asked if I can pop next door to get her key back from them for her (had while we were away in case of emergencies).

My response? 'if you're brave enough to go to Amsterdam I think you need to be brave enough to get key back from lovely neighbours...'

Agreed!

This is my cousin and she is now 31 and still scared of her own shadow

Sorry OP seen your updates.

They definitely do need to start baby steps of doing things themselves though.

I feel like my cousin is wasting her life away and it very sad

Just to second what has been said about Amsterdam on NYE. I think it's great that they want to try to be independent, and that you are taking them for city breaks and introducing them to the concept of travelling around BUT Amsterdam on NYE is not the place for this unless they really really want to push themselves totally out of their comfort zone to the point of freaking out and getting through it. Everyone will be letting off bangers, throwing them at people's feet in the streets and the streets will be packed with people. Maybe not NYE would be a better weekend away for them to start!

This blows my mind! i've never bothered learning to drive and have been taking my kids on the bus/tube since they were days old. What about when you are on holiday? Do you not use public transport there either?

I went to Paris with my sister when I was 15 and she was 18.
Why have you allowed them to be so mollycoddled that they haven't used a bus or a cashpoint?

The OP updated at 22.29 yesterday to explain why.

My 18 yr old has just flown to India on his own. You are not doing them any favours.

Aside from anything New Year in the Netherlands its really not that much fun. Its basically a few days of people lobbing fireworks at each other and innocent passers-by all day and night. It's not the New Year happy party they might be thinking of. London or Edinburgh would be much more fun, as would many other European cities.

I apologise. I committed the cardinal sin of not reading your updates. You are right. They should start small.

What is it about Amsterdam? Why has that caught the attention of a couple of young people who never really go anywhere? And why New Year?

Apologies, op. I only read your OP. I know I shouldn't just do that.

Do they have online friends in Amsterdam? Why Amsterdam?

I would presume it is to do with the widespread and mostly legal availability of drugs.

This! Don't discourage them from going it will be good for them.

However, say they need to show you they can be responsible enough to go. From now on, busses to school, work etc. Handling doctor's, dentist appts. If they can't show you they can advocate for themselves like grown ups, then you won't back the trip.

Also how are they (namely the fourteen year old) going to fund the trip?