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Original poster

Can a 19 year take her 14 year old sister abroad?

119 replies

ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 21:49

My incredibly anxious unstreetwise girls (who until now haven't been to the cashpoint by themselves or hopped on a local bus) have decided they are buying plane tickets and hotel rooms for New Year's Eve in Amsterdam.

Now while I applaud their ambitions I've tried explaining it's the travel equivalent of lying in bed for years then announcing they are signing up for a marathon in a few months and will need to get used to doing things by themselves without me chaperoning before anyone thinks it's wise for them to go to a big bad European city where they might get lost, hurt, preyed on by bad folks etc.

Apparently I'm a controlling bully for gently pointing this out.

Question if I do not give consent as her parent can I legally prevent my eldest 19 yr old DD from taking her 14 sister away on a plane/Eurostar?

Ffs.

OP posts:
Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:29

For those asking how come no buses have been taken until now the 19 year old is chronically ill (disabled really if I'm honest) and as a result or in parallel has crippling agrophobia/anxiety.

They have grown up in teeny rural towns where they've occasionally caught a train to a bigger town but no buses. Plus the pandemic of course.

Much of this is my fault I've just recently relocated with them where there are buses and exciting things on our doorstep plus have just got back from an Italian adventure with them which has given them a taste for travel and adventure.

Hiding the passports is a great idea or at least the 14 year olds. Annoyingly the 19 year old just watched me put it away in the safe.

When I explained I'd prefer to see them build their resilience and travel know-how by getting on the bus at the end of the driveway to a well known shopping centre and then in the other direction to an unknown town (plus the sodding cashpoint) I was told I've been babying them by driving them everywhere and it's all
my fault they've never done anything.

Grand say I have been waiting for the day of no longer needing Mum's Chauffeur services anymore to come and now it is here we can all celebrate that and look forward to a self-sufficient pair making their own way.

I also pointed out that teen sisters we know who (a) are older (b) not crippled by anxiety (c) one is at uni not lying in bed all day wasting her days on TikTok and (d) grew up in London hopping on and off tubes/buses and going to parties with actual people of all kinds just went to Paris via Eurostar still needed constant text/phone contact with parents plus had to deal with a tricky situation they weren't well equipped to do by themselves.

I'll email their dad but he's a massive nob who prefers to let me get on with 99% of parenting and refuses to answer my emails even when they are pleasant thanks for taking kids somewhere missives.

OP posts:
BocaChica · 01/08/2022 22:30

From one extreme to another ( two underage lads bluffed their way to America )

www.podcasts.ie/dont-go-far/

:)

Thatboymum · 01/08/2022 22:31

@titchy I live in Scotland in a town where public transport isn’t really needed but there is plenty of it , there’s a bus stop outside my house lol. I have been to London loads but I fly and use Ubers which I know is ironic that I can get on several flights a year but not a bus or a train but that’s actually very kind of you to not ridicule me and explain that process thank you 😊

@RampantIvy

i can fly yeah several times a year but always book private transfers because of the whole not being sure how a bus works and the anxiety around it. It makes me sound very entitled to say that yes I was driven around my whole life until I could drive but honestly I’m not and genuinely as an adult feel annoyed that my parents gave me such severe anxiety around public transport that even as an adult I can’t do it. But I would love to try

Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:32

@OutDamnedSpot yes this is exactly the line I'm taking.

What a wonderful idea let's make a plan to get you ready for such a trip.

I'm starting by refusing to book anyones hair/nails/lip fillet appointments, cash point chaperoning and encouraging them to do some Uk city breaks and/or day trips but according to my youngest this is bullying and they don't want to 'waste' their money on dead UK excursions

OP posts:
Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:34

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor I was thinking of a similar idea

Seperateish travel plans and hotel rooms with own itinerary but we all travel to airport together and they make their own itinerary

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 01/08/2022 22:34

Thatboymum · 01/08/2022 22:19

Of course I do I think it’s Absolutely crazy that I have never been on either but it’s been drilled into me from such a young age that I’m now genuinely scared and also embarrassed because I wouldn’t have a clue what to do etc . If somebody would like to come and hold my hand and take me on a bus I’d be so grateful haha

Show quote history

Sorry. I thought the "never want to" suggested quite the opposite!
I'm actually the opposite; will do anything to get out of driving, I absolutely hate it.

RampantIvy · 01/08/2022 22:36

For those asking how come no buses have been taken until now the 19 year old is chronically ill (disabled really if I'm honest) and as a result or in parallel has crippling agrophobia/anxiety.

Ah, I see.

You should have put this in your OP. This is known as a drip feed.
How is your 19 year old now?

Johnnysgirl · 01/08/2022 22:37

ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:32

@OutDamnedSpot yes this is exactly the line I'm taking.

What a wonderful idea let's make a plan to get you ready for such a trip.

I'm starting by refusing to book anyones hair/nails/lip fillet appointments, cash point chaperoning and encouraging them to do some Uk city breaks and/or day trips but according to my youngest this is bullying and they don't want to 'waste' their money on dead UK excursions

Who funds all this nail / hair / lip fillers (!) appointments for two non earners that never leave the house? Including the proposed travelling?
This is frankly bizarre.

titchy · 01/08/2022 22:39

Right - glad you visit London! It really is the easiest place to use public transport. Next time you fly down, promise yourself you will try at least two buses. MNers will recommend journeys and bus routes if you ask.

OP - don't hide their passports. Use this as the opportunity that both are clearly in massive need of. Support them. Everyone in the Netherlands speaks English so if they can't work out where to get the bus from airport to hotel they can ask. Now that they live near bus routes then get them using them and getting over the anxiety.

Motnight · 01/08/2022 22:39

This is such a bizarre thread.

Thatboymum · 01/08/2022 22:41

@Johnnysgirl I think in my anxiety ridden mind I do never want to but actually the biggest part of me is so embarrassed and desperate to have the confidence to do this normal every day thing that I would love to. I can’t say I particularly like driving actually either I just feel safe in my car I’m very agoraphobic and hate germs.

op sorry for derailing your post but I can totally relate to your childrens more sheltered life’s and now you’ve gone on to explain more about them I can see why you would be worried.

to the many people who haven’t mocked me and suggested things to try etc I’m actually so touched as I expected to be bullied rotten x

OnaBegonia · 01/08/2022 22:43

I'm starting by refusing to book anyones hair/nails/lip fillet appointments, cash point chaperoning
Anxiety/agoraphobia yet manages all these activities?
Being ill is not a reason to not live a life, it seems more as you want to wrap them up in cotton wool.
I'd be taking it as a positive that they now have a taste for adventure and encourage it not hide passports etc.

Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:46

@RampantIvy apologies but I was just typing quickly asking on leglislative constraints rather than the entire context and backstory but as it's blown up a bit it's obviously relevant.

Yeah she was a mess and both have been suicidal self-harmers. DD19 left college age 16 due to agony and other symptoms and never left the house again. I got her a little dog but she very rarely walks him. The relocation was primarily for her taking her away from the tiny town where she went to school fearful of bumping into people from school where she was bullied.

Her sister is terribly anxious and self-conscious and has overdosed twice this year.

I take them on a couple of city breaks a year (London/Bristol/Edinburgh/Birmingham/Bath recently) where they are encouraged to go and do stuff such as clothes shop, wander, buy food and only on the most recent trip to Edinburgh did this really properly happen without waiting for me to return to buy food/clothes for them etc.

DD19 has finally started driving lessons but still sleeps in my bed despite me creating a fabulous emo goth den with en-suite for her in the new house.

Her twin DB has left home, has a job, steady girlfriend and mates and goes to nightclubs, festivals and city breaks for which I'm grateful and proud.

There we are. All the detail I can think of. I'm really not happy with the youngest going straight from A&E adventures and not doing much on her own to a Dutch holiday.

When I was her age 14 I'd travel by train to London for the day to meet a friend who had done the same (pre phones) and at 19 was hitch hiking to Amsterdam with university mates.

OP posts:
Ted27 · 01/08/2022 22:50

How are they planning to pay for it?

Can you not meet them halfway in planning a trip to London in the new year and then start building up the things they need to do to make it work.

JasmineVioletRose · 01/08/2022 22:51

I'd traveled right around the world on my own aged 18. How has she not been on a bus fgs?!?! 🙈🤯

Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:51

@OnaBegonia she does now but gets me to book them and spend a good few days feeling sick with nerves then on the day telling me she doesn't think she can do it etc but then remembers she has acute facial/body dysphoria and HATES how she looks so goes through with all the bonkers treatments but spends 10 mins in the car quaking and crying them I have to attend with her and sit with her.
The treatments allow her to show herself in the world.

Two years ago on holiday with my best mate she refused to come outside to the beach this year she spent the whole time in the sea being sociable.

OP posts:
Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:53

@JasmineVioletRose might be worth you reading the thread fgs.

I too had interailled etc by her age. It was never my dream to have a disabled non-working suicidal teen sleeping in my bed instead of having a fun life but there we are

OP posts:
Original poster
ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:55

@Ted27 we're off to London and Cardiff this summer for some more city adventures

OP posts:
Thatboymum · 01/08/2022 22:55

ZiggysTarbrush · 01/08/2022 22:46

@RampantIvy apologies but I was just typing quickly asking on leglislative constraints rather than the entire context and backstory but as it's blown up a bit it's obviously relevant.

Yeah she was a mess and both have been suicidal self-harmers. DD19 left college age 16 due to agony and other symptoms and never left the house again. I got her a little dog but she very rarely walks him. The relocation was primarily for her taking her away from the tiny town where she went to school fearful of bumping into people from school where she was bullied.

Her sister is terribly anxious and self-conscious and has overdosed twice this year.

I take them on a couple of city breaks a year (London/Bristol/Edinburgh/Birmingham/Bath recently) where they are encouraged to go and do stuff such as clothes shop, wander, buy food and only on the most recent trip to Edinburgh did this really properly happen without waiting for me to return to buy food/clothes for them etc.

DD19 has finally started driving lessons but still sleeps in my bed despite me creating a fabulous emo goth den with en-suite for her in the new house.

Her twin DB has left home, has a job, steady girlfriend and mates and goes to nightclubs, festivals and city breaks for which I'm grateful and proud.

There we are. All the detail I can think of. I'm really not happy with the youngest going straight from A&E adventures and not doing much on her own to a Dutch holiday.

When I was her age 14 I'd travel by train to London for the day to meet a friend who had done the same (pre phones) and at 19 was hitch hiking to Amsterdam with university mates.

You sound like a wonderful mum, very supportive and understanding. I think having read all the above the 14yo shouldn’t go without you and the 19yo could but not alone.
why don’t you go with them but take a huge back seat and let them plan it be in control etc and do there own things . From an agoraphobic persons point of view this could be such a confidence / mental health booster for her

Cameleongirl · 01/08/2022 22:57

While it’s great that your DD’s are both so much better and want to travel, my concern would be what would happen if either of them became unwell and couldn’t cope during the trip. It would be especially difficult for your 14-year-old if her older sister became anxious and needed help. A child can’t change flights and get someone home quickly, for example. I don’t think your recent Italian trip is relevant as you were there the entire time and presumably sorted everything out! It’s v. different when you have to organize everything yourself.

Could your son perhaps go on a trip with them, or take his twin somewhere first? Given her medical history, I think it would be best to ensure that your 19-year-old is a confident traveler before her younger sister comes along.

BloodyCamping · 01/08/2022 22:57

coukd you go with them to Amsterdam?

they both need rapid life skill learning over the incoming months to build confidence

catching a bus/train/taxi
using a cash card to get cash out and pay for items.
navigation in new cities
making phone call enquiries
Independently ordering food off a menu

titchy · 01/08/2022 22:58

Would their brother and his gf go with them? Not to chaperone as such, more to have fun with his sisters, but might be better than you going.

Ted27 · 01/08/2022 23:05

But going with you and going alone are very different things

With all the information you have given it would be madness for your 19 year old to take the younger one. Not because Amsterdam is a big bad city, but it's unfamiliar, will be packed out and will be overwhelming.
My son is very familiar with public transport, has been on many scout camps, travels to grandparents on his own, has a part time job - I'd trust him to go abroad on his own but wouldn't be happy with his first trip outside the UK to be over New year

larkstar · 01/08/2022 23:12

I'm with @OutDamnedSpot - this is doable IMHO.

My girls flew to France to stay with my sister when they were about 15 and 12 and then a couple of years later (pre-uni) went to Paris together to stay in an AirBnB. They also went to Hungary together. The eldest was already used to catching trains on her own as she went to an orchestra in Manchester every Saturday - about 40 mins away by train.

You could easily help them get up to speed with becoming more independent.

RampantIvy · 01/08/2022 23:13

That sounds very difficult for all of you @ZiggysTarbrush. I hope you and your family get the support they need.

I have tiptoed in your footsteps with DD who was horribly bullied at 14. I recall one weekend suggesting that I take her to Yo Sushi (her favourite), and she wanted to go to a different city so that she wouldn't bump into anyone she knew.

Fortunately that is behind her now, but it was awful at the time.

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