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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

My sons behaviour is intolerable

133 replies

spk68 · 06/02/2022 07:04

Hello
I am just lost to know what to do with my 14 year old- soon to be 15. He is honestly the rudest meanest most toxic person I have ever met. He belittles all of us in the family, me his dad and brothers. Picks their weaknesses and mocks them - you’re fat , you’re thick, you’ve got a bald patch etc etc. He sneers at us, won’t talk to us unless he wants something, and has a way of making everyone feel rubbish. we have tried every thing- taking his gadgets away, sending him to bed, chores but nothing works. It’s now making my DH and me ill. DH says he wants him out but he’s 14. The atmosphere in the house is awful. I do not know what to do. DH told him last night that he has to go but he has nowhere to go. But the truth is he’s making our lives impossible. I just need some help/ advise/ suggestions how to turn this boy into a decent human being. I’m worried about how he will form relationships as he’s so mean.

OP posts:
caringcarer · 06/02/2022 16:55

Is there anyone in extended family he is close too? Older brothers, grandparents, aunties or uncles? Maybe they could have a word with them. My eldest son went through a difficult period at 14. Now he is most loving and thoughtful son. He said to me once I don't know why I was like it, I o ow I was a shit to you and SD but thanks for still loving me anyway. It helped him he said because he wanted to know if we/I would stick with him or give up on him. DSD has incredible patience and after he refused to stay on for A levels even though he had really good GCSE grades he left school and got a dead end job through an agency. He did his best to get sacked, took days off was rude to customers etc as Nd through it all we be told him we believed in him and knew he was a good person. Both DSD as Nd I took it in turns to me get up at 5 O'Clock to drive him to work to start at 6am one week then collect at 10pm the next. He was too young to drive and no buses at that time of the day. He gradually improved and then after he passed driving test and over 19 his employer put him through a lorry driving class 2 course. He has not looked back. Now he out earns his sister who has 2 degrees and a Master's. I recall the change came one day his Aunty was with us and he was being particularly rude and hurtful and she asked him to go with her to shop and was gone about an hour. She told him she was worried he must be very unhappy to be so.horroble to those who loved him because she knew he was a lovely boy underneath. Turned out he was worried he would not get as good grades as his sister at A levels and thought he would just blow them. After that we stopped trying to persuade him to stay on at school/college and agreed we would support him leaving. His teachers tried to get him to stay and I even got a call from Head of Sixth Form telling me I should be pushing him to stay on and I would be sorry if I let him leave. I just know it was the right choice for him. I was a HoD at secondary school and it made me sad but so glad we stuck by him. You can do this OP. It is tough my but you will get through this rebellion.

Billybagpuss · 06/02/2022 17:24

I’m sorry to be blunt OP but your post summarises as:

DS is mean to us and calls us fat so DH wants to kick him out.

You are making everything a battle and it has to stop.

The phrase that got me through the teenage years was ‘please don’t speak to me like that’ the walk away and don’t engage or change the subject with a ‘what do you want for dinner’. Don’t punish it, just don’t acknowledge it or get involved in a discussion with it.

The thing you have to remember is it’s not the words he’s trying to get across to you it’s how he feels and he doesn’t have the words to express that so he’s transferring his pain in other ways.

Just keep involving him. Invite him for walks and things but it takes two to make a battle if you don’t engage things will be easier.

The other thing I did was start up new hobbies as I was never out of the house. Having time for you and DH away from this makes it easier to handle.

KittensTeaAndCake · 06/02/2022 17:30

@Toanewstart23

It’s an ongoing saga

You posted two years ago a thread entitled

* My 13 year old son is just wicked*

Hmm.
Posters on that thread seemed to think the same as on this one - "It seems that perhaps he has now been designated the bad child".

I notice on that thread you called him wicked because he ripped up his DB's certificate? Why did he? Did you ever get to the bottom of it? My guess is jealousy, again maybe being unfairly compared to his perfect siblings.

I think you do need outside help because your punishment regime is obviously not working.

OddsNSodsBitsNBobs · 06/02/2022 17:31

Not the point of the thread but thus can be done, change the password....

spk68 · 06/02/2022 17:47

@Booboobibles

I have a similar nineteen year old who now lives with my ex. It was like living with an abusive partner but when it’s your child, instead of everyone shouting LTB, they blame your parenting. Does your son have Asperger’s or ADHD? Before I’m jumped on, my son has both, I have both and my other son just has Asperger’s and is a lot calmer.

I think that you have to go out of your way to do everything you can do to help him change….otherwise you’ll blame yourself if he goes off the rails. I know that’s incredibly difficult when he’s destroying your health and ruining the lives of the rest of the family and there has to come a time when you give up, but 14 is too young. I don’t know what age that should happen but I find that there’s too much guilt involved and thinking that my parenting hasn’t been adequate and I will have to pay for that forever.

My son has changed over the years and is nicer. He still can’t handle stress and is horrible to everyone if he is stressed. On the day of my dad’s funeral, my brother was trying to talk to him and he kept swearing at him. Over the years I’ve tried to tell him why he needs to be nice to people, even telling him that he should do it even if it’s for his own benefit. He just cannot understand why being kind is important!

There will be people giving you advice who haven’t had experience of living with this sort of very complicated abuse. I know how awful it is x

Thank you. It really is just awful when you're in it. I do love him. I tell him constantly I love him. I try and spend time with him When he's crossed the boundary he does know and he's ok for a few days but the slowly reverts. It's relentless. There is peace today as he knows he has to behave. Let's hope it's the start. It's his birthday next week and I've planned a night away which I will still do and hopefully we'll get some alive time to talk
OP posts:
spk68 · 06/02/2022 19:49

@User310

I don’t think punishing will help at all in this instance. I think communication is the only thing that will help (maybe therapy?) Have you ever just been frank with him? Asked him who the hell he thinks he is, Explained that you are humans not just mum and dad and how dare he bully you all? I would tell him the kind of person he had turned into and the consequences of his actions.

Sorry you’re having to go through this op

Yep have done that but it seems to wash over him. I'm not giving up on him though
OP posts:
TheGreyWitch · 07/02/2022 11:05

I was like this, if you kick him out you will loose him forever.
Your quick to punish but have you stopped to think about the bigger picture here? Friendships, school? Hes under an incredible amount of pressure right now, if memory serves me correctly at that age I was prepping for GCSEs, with everyone being in lockdown teens haven't had the prep they need to get ready for these next big steps.
You are a vile parent, with an "I don't care" attitude, wonder were your son actually got it from, look in the mirror, look at your replies here. You are literally pushing him away, reading what I'm reading her i am not surprised in the slightest he's the way he is. You clearly dont care about his thought or feelings, your comparing him to his brothers and that my friend is dangerous territory.
Change now or loose your son forever, it's your choice. Like I said I was like this and I see now that you know maybe, just maybe if my parents had been more understanding and considerate I may have opened up to them. I went in to care at 15, I will be 25 in may, I haven't seen or spoken to them off my own back for the last 10 years due to their treatment. They threw me in care because they couldn't cope and when the time comes their going in a care home with no visits from me 😊
Is this what you want from your son?

titchy · 07/02/2022 12:01

Given that she posted the exact same issues two years ago, received the exact same advice about changing her parenting, and seemingly hasn't changed it one bit, sadly I see a very fucked up future for this kid who will doubtless be NC with his family in the next few years. Sad

BraveGoldie · 07/02/2022 12:15

OP, one suggestion is to deprecate who he is from how he is behaving.
In your first post you say he IS mean/rude/toxic... and you need to turn him into a decent human being.

You may tell him you love him lots, but if that's how you think of him, then you are thinking just as horrid things about him as anything he is saying about others. It's devastating for a child, because they can't change who they are, they can only change how they behave. So being told they ARE something terrible (and he will sense it even if you don't explicitly tell him), will make him prove those judgements, and it will feel for him like there is no way out.

Keep the faith in who he IS, while working hard on what he DOES....

Hope this is helpful - And I'm sorry you are going through something so hard.

Loveisthere · 07/02/2022 12:43

Is he being bullied or taking drugs depressed scared he will not live up to his siblings academically. What career path has he talked of then encourage him to take steps to fulfill this. Also agree with pp that laughing and shaking your head may cut it

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 07/02/2022 12:48

A nasty mean child is an unhappy child.

I’d do more with him, and generally show him you love him. Car journeys are good for side to side talking rather than face to face.

Ignore the bad and concentrate on the good. Acknowledge anything good he does.

sashagabadon · 07/02/2022 13:01

I agree it's a tricky age and I agree with the lovebombing strategy. Threatening a 14 year old with withdrawing financial help at 16 and his home at 18 is pretty Shock
Is there something you can do together? like Nandos and cinema after school? ten pin bowling? whatever, spend time together, say you want to have a day together and what does he suggest - £60 budget (or whatever)
I would do that rather than the stick approach

collieresponder88 · 07/02/2022 20:20

Could he stay with grandparents for a while

1234barbat · 07/02/2022 23:31

Try a therapist for him.

Ramanama · 08/02/2022 08:29

I had the same experience with my son starting from age 14. He was struggling with everything and he lashed out at us as his only outlet. He was then diagnosed with ADHD and anxiety. He was at a school that also tried to punish him into better behaviour when he was emotionally unable to cope and he ended up taking drugs and being expelled. Things are much better now that he is 18. He still struggles and he still lashes out at us when stressed but not as much and we understand what is going on better. It is impossible to bear and I completely understand your feelings - especially if your 2 older boys weren't like this - but we found that the only thing that works is positivity, kindness and support.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 08/02/2022 12:31

He was struggling with everything and he lashed out at us as his only outlet.

I don't think the OP's DS has ADHD (etc) because his "lashing out" is so very mild. it's the OP and her husband's reaction to it that is extreme - she uses language like "intolerable" "the rudest meanest most toxic person I have ever met" "making everyone feel rubbish" "making my DH and me ill" and her DH wants him to move out. She is also catastrophising about his future "I’m worried about how he will form relationships"

And yet when you look at his actual behaviour the worst examples she can quote are sneering, name-calling and not talking to his family. Oh and two years ago he tore a certificate belonging to his brother - but presumably nothing since. Most parents here who are trying to help have successfully managed far worse.

And this doesn't sound at all like a child who is stressed by school lashing out at home. It sounds like a child who is getting on well enough outside the home (though perhaps not achieving everything his brothers achieved and his parents have come to expect) but who doesn't get on well with his own family and whose parents wont consider any parenting advice that might mean questioning their own responses.

spk68 · 08/02/2022 13:11

Wow. There are some really judgemental people on here. I was at a real low point when I made my post- can't possibly go into detail about all the great times we have and what kinda things we do together one on one and as a family and how much fun we have as a family. I posted a snapshot of 2 incidents over 2 years. Some days are bad and this was one of those days. One post referred me a vile parent ..... just wow. So much for the sisterhood.

OP posts:
Branleuse · 08/02/2022 13:27

@SmolCat

we have tried every thing- taking his gadgets away, sending him to bed, chores Instead of pushing him away I think you need to pull him in. Have you tried essentially love bombing? And have you tried asking him about why he’s doing it?

Every single time he says something awful say “well we love you”. There can still be consequences (eg no phone) but they are calmly given and separate.

Then at a quiet time, maybe when it’s just you and him in the car, ask him gently if there’s something going on. Really spell it out to him, but calmly, that every time he picks on someone’s appearance it really hurts them. And tell him you’re trying to figure out why he’s trying to hurt everyone and push everyone away. Reassure him that you’re not going anywhere.

I totally agree with this. Theres a saying - love me when i least deserve it, for that is when i really need it.

Honestly OP sometimes I could quite happily have thrown my teenagers out the window, so im not judging. I think teenage boy hormones, coupled with more school stress than ever, post lockdown armageddon anxiety, exam years looming and toxic gamer culture on the internet where theyre all absolutely vile to each other as banter - its a horrible mix.
Obviously your son cant leave home at 14 and youve tried removing stuff and punishments. I think you need to try another tack. More positive reinforcement. Go back to basics. Treat him as if hes a great kid. Make sure youre getting enough one to one time. Take him for a drive where he might talk to you in the car. Ask him how stuff is going with friends and school, without judgement. Take him for a burger or whatever he likes.
Tell him that youd like to call a truce as you feel like theres way too much conflict and aggression and you want to know what he thinks of the situation and what we can do to start having a peaceful homelife again

LovejoysVase · 08/02/2022 13:30

My son can be like this. He is autistic (not saying your son is, but challenging behaviour is challenging behaviour).

As long as there is no physical violence from him ignore. You are adults, you can ignore insults, or you can fake it and learn to let it wash over you.

The threats/punishments you’re using will only make things worse, and telling him to leave is huge rejection for a child who (for whatever reason) is unable to express himself appropriately.

There’s a book called The Explosive Child that I think would help you. It teaches a different way to approach things with a child whose responses and reactions are problematic.

You do need a different approach or you’re going to lose him.

Sunnyjac · 08/02/2022 20:53

You have to tolerate his behaviour. You’re his parents. If he can’t rely on you to dig deep to understand and support him then he’s got no chance.

Pinkle40 · 08/02/2022 23:03

I saw this post on Facebook and felt I needed to respond. Please please seek mediation, I'm not sure what part of the UK you are from but there is mediation support available especially if it involves him being asked to leave home. I am a youth homeless worker, it's not pretty out there. His school should also be able to help with support. There is usually a reason why they act like this, sometimes talking can the best form of discipline.

MmckeeRN · 09/02/2022 03:02

I am in Health Care. His brain " is wired differently " per the Psychiatrist's words. Nothing will change him but him. His is quite possibly a psychopath or psychopathic tendencies. (I didn't say serial Killer) MANY CEO, lawyers etc. are psychopathic. Now in his youth will be best time to improve his thinking. Please employ the expertise of a child psychiatrist.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 09/02/2022 11:30

I was at a real low point when I made my post- can't possibly go into detail about all the great times we have and what kinda things we do together one on one and as a family and how much fun we have as a family.

It's great to hear that you do have lots of great times when things go well. The problem is what you and DH are doing when things go badly - which they can do in any normal family. You and your husband need to restrain youselves from saying hurtful things to him - just as you'd like him to restrain himelf from saying hurtful things to you. If his parents tell him that you wont support him in future, or that you want him to leave home, or that he is making you ill, then in the long run that can do real damage to a young person. To avoid that trap you need to reframe the way you think about him - and when you and DH do that yourselves, you can also help him to reframe his own thoughts.

When you are at a low point make a deliberate effort to normalise him instead of catastrophise about him. Keep reminding yourself that many ordinary families go through bad times and many ordinary teenagers can be (very!) rude. And families do get through it, and teenagers do grow past it and turn into decent people. Even say that aloud to yourself!

And try to re-frame your thoughts about him into "I" language. (You can encouarage him to do the same!) Focus on how you feel not who he is. For example, when you find yourself wanting to say "My sons behaviour is intolerable" replace that with "I can't tolerate his behaviour" or "I don't want to tolerate his behiour" or "I don't think I should tolerate his behaviour" or "I find it hard to bear when he is repeatedly rude". Sometimes parents do have to bear bad behaviour so as to correct the behaviour in the long term; they can't fix it on the spot because that isn't possible, but they don't have to let it make them ill or spoil everyone else's day either. So not "He is making me ill" but "I felt ill after he did (whatever)" Then the prioirity becomes, not changing his behaviour right now, or making him back down and apologise right now, but find ways to staying well yourself or to make sure the family carries on whatever he says or does. Using "I" language helps you focus on making life tolerable for the rest of you. Your family happiness needn't depend on changing him and you'll both feel less tempted to talk about throwing him out or stopping supporting him.

As for him, he wont be saying "you are fat" out of the blue for no reason, it will probably be in the middle of a quarrel or after a scolding or because you're making a demand that seems too much, or because he feels bad about himself. So he shouldn't be saying "you are fat" but "I am hurt because you said...." or "I feel bad because ...." or "I can't .. because ... ". For him to reframe his own thoughts, you would have to understand how what you said was hurtful, or accept that he had a vaild reason for rejecting your demand (and help him negotiate with you to find something that works for both of you), or find ways to make him feel better. And that's where family therapy or mediation can be such a blessing.

It sounds as if you have a very important inner value of being "a family" where everything runs super-smoothly so it's especially hard for you to manage a child who is spiky and who doesn't fit your family ideal. With a child like that, you give them love and tolerance, and space when they need it. Then your "family" is still very much a family though not always not the ideal you imagined.

Wondergirl100 · 10/02/2022 09:38

Hello @spk68 no judgement from me. one of my children is completely unlike the other and much harder work - I was also myself an absolutely vile teenager - I remember my mum crying her eyes out at how I spoke to her. I had a lot of troubles inside me that I couldnt verbalise! I am a fairly normal adult now!

The first thing I would ask is a trauma informed question - when did your son start to behave like this? Could you map this out using paper - just think about his behaviour on a timeline - did he begin to diverge in behaviour from siblings at a particular age/ ? What else was happening then.

It's interesting you say school is not the issue - it's a common factor with children with neurodivergent issues (ie. ASD as my own child has) - that they are 'fine at school' then appallingly behaved outside school. They 'mask' their tension and stress then take it out on those around them.

I would have a think about whether he is 'masking' something at school that makes him worse at home.

I would also look at what happened in the family in the time when he began to behave like this - have you had any counselling from somoene with experience of family counselling?

Geppili · 10/02/2022 09:48

Drugs?