My sons behaviour is intolerable

[spk68]

Hello
I am just lost to know what to do with my 14 year old- soon to be 15. He is honestly the rudest meanest most toxic person I have ever met. He belittles all of us in the family, me his dad and brothers. Picks their weaknesses and mocks them - you’re fat , you’re thick, you’ve got a bald patch etc etc. He sneers at us, won’t talk to us unless he wants something, and has a way of making everyone feel rubbish. we have tried every thing- taking his gadgets away, sending him to bed, chores but nothing works. It’s now making my DH and me ill. DH says he wants him out but he’s 14. The atmosphere in the house is awful. I do not know what to do. DH told him last night that he has to go but he has nowhere to go. But the truth is he’s making our lives impossible. I just need some help/ advise/ suggestions how to turn this boy into a decent human being. I’m worried about how he will form relationships as he’s so mean.

Could he be using drugs? He sounds very similar to my brother at the same age, around the time he started his ‘alternative’ lifestyle which is still ongoing. Ultimately my brother has a lot of issues which were diagnosed later in his life, but he refuses to seek help and he’s no nc with us all bar the occasional message.

Great post Sportsmother. OP, you and your DH sound like my parents. You think you're being loving and open and parenting him the same way as your two 'good' sons who turned out alright, but you're coming across as cold, harsh and judgemental towards him. I agree, his behaviour is appalling but it hasn't come from nowhere. He is desperately trying to communicate with you, he's not getting what he needs from either of you emotionally. He's being treated like he's the whole problem but this is about a relationship and a family dynamic.

I think the family counselling suggestion is a very good one. You and DH have no idea how to handle this situation (somewhat understandably) and your threats and ultimatums are not working. Professional support to unravel what is going in here would be invaluable to you all

@ponkydonkey

I feel you pain my 17 year old just went into a huge strop/ tirade of verbal abuse because I asked him to put his cereal away! 15 minutes over a 5 word request.

Roll on when he's 18 and I can move house without him!

His dad is bloody useless too!

Can't wait for the day he leaves.

That's so sad. I have three boys, all older than yours. We've had our ups and downs but one thing I've always been completely clear on is that they are the most important people in my life and no matter what happens or what they do, I'll support/help them 100%. I feel for your son that he doesn't have a feeling of security in his own home and his parent is counting down the days until he has to leave. You reap what you sow unfortunately. 😔😢

You're prioritising your own feelings it seems.

Your ds is unhappy which means his behaviour is crap. His crap behaviour makes you unhappy. And you're concentrating on improving his behaviour so that you are no longer unhappy. Whereas you need to focus on whatever is causing HIS unhappiness, not yours.

What do you want from him?

I think you need to be clear about what is a reasonable expectation on your part.

You can demand that the unkind and nasty comments stop and you can ask that he attends meals and complies with your house rules with a good grace.

But it is very unreasonable to demand that he is happy. Or that he is affectionate towards you all. Or that he talks to you and gives you his confidence. If he's unhappy, he can't just wave a magic wand and make himself happy. It's not surprising that he's not affectionate towards parents and siblings who are constantly getting at him for what seem like quite small things. And he's hardly going to open up to you given the fuss you all seem to make about everything. He's probably afraid that all will happen is that you will talk 'at' him rather than actually listen to him since you all seem to see him as a problem to be fixed.

Have you given as good as you've got in a clever way? If so how did it go? So in retaliation you'd say well you think we're fat but we all think you're rude and unkind and unable to have good relationships with those who you will need for the rest of your life?

Not suggesting it's a good idea but may make him think?

How much time does he spend on social media, gaming etc...what types of people does he hang out with, have you ever invited them round?

Is it just insults about size? Or are those just examples?

I think the ultimatums are a mistake at 14 and there has to be a way for him to earn his gadgets back.

He's a 14 year old lashing out. Tell him calmly that his words are hurtful and wrong, then move on. Model kindness for him and try to draw him in.

Oh, and walking together sounds great.

@BlueJag

We also have a 16 year old. To me you have to see the situation overall. You think he is solely the problem. That's seldom the case. You need to see every aspect of his life. How is his school life? His friendship group. Talk to his teachers. Learn how he is at school. The more you take from him the worse is going to get. He'll have nothing to lose. I'll start by doing nice things for him(sounds crazy I know) make him his favourite meal. Talk nicely to him regardless. Take him but only him for a treat. You need to love him even when you don't feel like it. Something is going on and all I hear is he needs a punishment. You all need to stop reacting to his behaviour and he'll eventually learn that doesn't work.

Agree with this.

This sounds terribly passive aggressive, mind! 'Every single time he says something awful say “well we love you”.'

Sounds to me like the problem is with your DH. What kind of parent tells their 14yo to leave for a bit of name calling. No wonder the kid is unhappy and lashing out. Neither of his parents even like him.

@spk68

Thanks all for your messages

I don't agree with DH that he should leave. He is only 14 so where is he going to go after all.
So by way of update we had a chat with him today. We have taken away his gadgets as that seems to be the minimum that we can do. We've told him that it is completely out of order the way he speaks to us and to his brothers and he needs to alter his behaviour ( don't think that's gonna work but who knows?)
But what we have said is that if he continues with this we will withdraw all financial support and he can leave school at 16 and get a job and pay us rent and then move out when he's 18. We are an academic family. His older brothers are both at uni but I absolutely refuse to finance him at uni if he carries on with this attitude. For my own mental health and my DH.
I do love him but I just don't like him at the moment.
Yes I agree that I need to get to the bottom of his angst. But he won't open up and we've tried to get him to a counsellor but he refuses.
He's not badly behaved at school - nor brilliant but actually school is not the issue. It's the way he us with us.
I'm totally heartbroken as this is not what I expected. He's my 3rd son. My older 2 boys had their moments but they are lovely young men now. Don't know what happened to my youngest?

Does he feel compared to his brothers, even if you say you are not? Do you compare inadvertently?

Is it that he feels he is a failure compared to the rest of you because he is not academic? What are his hobbies, do you support him in those? What is he good at at school, is it sport but you are not interested?

He also can’t leave at 16 and get a job and I would expect you to know that. He has to

You must then do one of the following until you’re 18:

stay in full-time education, for example at a college
start an apprenticeship or traineeship
spend 20 hours or more a week working or volunteering, while in part-time education or training

And threatening him with being kicked out at 18, when he sees his academic brothers coming and going and being supported because they have done the ‘right’ thing in going to uni is not going to help, in fact I consider it totally irresponsible. He could get a job, but still live at home paying rent.

It sounds as if a lot of pressure is being put upon him because of his, in his eyes, perfect brothers following the academic route

Am I missing something here because his behaviour doesn’t seem THAT bad. I’m not saying it’s brilliant but don’t most teenagers go through a phase of hating their family and a bit of teasing and name calling? I thing threatening to throw him out will only serve to ‘hate’ you for real and thus make his behaviour much worse. Have you tried just ignoring him. He’ll soon get bored if you don’t react. How long has this been going on out of interest?

I'm aware you've had much conflicting advice & I don't want to make your head spin more. You might need to try different things before 1 thing works. My gut feeling was that you were rising too much to petty crap - like pp said, don't give him any satisfaction for his snipes. A simple "Wow that was mean. Why are you having a go?" In a factual tone of voice at most. Also, "I wouldn't say something like that to you, why are talking like that to your brother/ me?" In factual observant tone of voice. You can still influence him to make better choices by simply making him defend/consider how he comes across. You're still teaching him how to make good decisions. Teenagers can be terrible at empathy, he is figuring out boundaries. And teens love boundary testing

And don't go on about distant future (Uni). He can't be motivated by that maybe far away future.

@FlapsInTheWind

When I was at secondary school in the 1970s a lad in the year above had his parents sell their house and go off in a camper without him when he was 14. He was an obnoxious twat. He went home from school to find the place had been moved into by the new owners. I think he was taken into care. The parents bought a house in France after some years travelling if memory serves.

In your shoes I would be tempted by this I think.

This happened to a woman I know She was a teenager at time Her and brothers must have been taken into care. She has never seen them since that day.

Wow. Poor Kid.

I'm that lost for words, I have no advice. Just poor poor kid.

Ps - and something else pp said. Extend micro moments when you actually like him because he did something kind or helpful, was witty. Humour is incredibly useful with teens.

tbh, "you're fat!" Is the sort of comment that would start a fierce and good natured banter contest in our house. At level of daft things 9 yr olds say to each other. I don't care if DS wins because I get better every time by learning from his methods

Who is he hanging around with at school? Could cannabis be involved? Possibly undiagnosed autism/ADHD?

Possibly he IS being compared unfavourably with his older brothers.
The “ Insults” he gives are just silly..
He’s obviously unhappy for some reason, teens can be ghastly at times, but if he’s doing well at school, and not trashing the house, he doesn’t sound THAT bad.

If someone said “ You are ( insert insult here)
I’d take no notice, as he’s doing it as you take the bait.
Teenagers really know how to press buttons in their parents.
It’s an innate gift.

Is he the scapegoat for the golden children?

He is honestly the rudest meanest most toxic person I have ever met

What was he like as a child?

In your first post you make him sound like a delinquent, so toxic that his father wants him out of his home at 14.

Then in later posts you say he’s doing OK at school, he’s not in trouble - he’s just “mean”. It’s name-calling and a selfish attitude, basically.

If you’re making him feel like he’s the worst teenager that ever lived - toxic! - and nothing like his brothers! - then you’re all part of the problem.

PPs advice on praising good - even if it’s micro moments - and not rising to insults is what you need.

You will all get through it OP, I know it's hard, I have 2 DS in late teens. Have you thought about counselling for him and possibly family counselling for you all as a family for a few sessions, to see if it helps. Maybe, if he sees you all supporting him, it'll help him. I don't think this is the fact that he's a nasty person (from what you say) but I think it's a tricky age, and they do come through.

[quote YukoandHiro]@UserBot9to5 With most families having at least one parent working from home, how is that even possible as a solution? [/quote]
I wouldn’t agree with ‘most’,
Wfh is still a fairly small percentage of the population, especially now restrictions have eased.

his projections about appearance onto all of you suggest he has issues with himself. is he overweight, think he's too skinny, or unattractive, gay, anything that makes him need to lash out to deflect from his own issues?

I agree with @sportsmother

The fault is with the parenting imo. Not the child

I’d get some help. Urgently.

Talk to your GP, School and social services. If you can afford to pay for family therapy do.

Teens can be appalling but this sounds like a severe case. You don’t think there’s any substance abuse??

Poor poor boy. Being threatened with being thrown out of his own home at 14 years old.

I agree with many pps, something is going on with him, can you not see that? It’s your job as his mother to find out. Is he being bullied? Is he struggling with his sexuality? (Or maybe telling you about it) Is he in with a bad crowd and scared? Eating disorder? Drugs? Drink? So many variables. You need to find out WHY he is behaving as he is.

Don’t send him away to boarding school as suggested by a pp, he needs love not rejection.

And tell your DH to shut his mouth when he threatens him with being chucked out. What kind of Dad does that?