Are we bringing up a nation of snowflakes??

[shellstarbarley]

Are this generation of kids going to be a nation of snowflakes? I am bringing my children up the way my mum brought me up and I would say I am quite a strong person with minimal issues. I work in a primary school and every little graze or bump has to be accounted for children fall over and cry and scream until somebody comes, very few kids seem to just get up and dust themselves off and carry on. My kids rarely have a day off school but their friends seem to be off for any little thing and everyone seems to be dying when they have a cold or a sprained wrist etc. Parents won't let their children walk to school or even catch a bus so they are reliant at parents at all times. When we were 13 all our pocket money was stopped and she we had to find a part time job I did a paperround, babysitting and washed up in a local pub my brother mucked out at a stables and my other brother helped on our cousins farm. I know now it is much harder to get jobs like it was then but teens parents seem to do so much for them that they can't do much for themselves anymore. I loved being busy and still do and loved the responsibility in my part time jobs aand I remember my dad saying to me when I was out of work in my early 20's and claiming benefits that the one thing I cettainly wasn't was lazy but I would always be out doing something constructive whilst looking for work as they had instilled this strong ethic in me. We got buses and walked everywhere and we never lied to our parents we always told them where we were or used a landline at a friends house or phone box if our plans changed. Maybe looking back as my mum worked full time it was a bit of a parenting cop out. I don't know. BUT I am sure this made us strong adults. I don't give up everytime I get a cold or period pain dose up and carry on like wise I don't miss work. I also remember phoning and booking my own hair and dental and dr appts and even going to doc appts on my own at 15. I am trying really hard to bring my kids up this way but is so hard because their friends get lifts everywhere , their parents give them an endless supply of money and shower them with sympathy every time they have a sniffle or a grazed knee. I want my kids to be able to survive in the adult world because actually it is quite a harsh place and you have to be strong and determined to fight against the problems you may come up against and I think my parents did me a massive favour as I feel able to cope with adult life and conquer the problems because I learnt to build up strategies when I was growing up and not be 100% reliant on my parents for everything.

I think there's two separate things here:

• thinking for yourself, being willing to start at the bottom etc
• mental health

I get the impression that a lot of today's graduates have to some extent been fed a lie.
Things that used to be done by school leavers have become 'graduate jobs' with the increase in % of youngsters going to university. These youngsters didn't realise they would still be starting on the bottom rung, just with a degree certificate this time. So they don't like it when they are asked to make the coffee, do the copying etc.

Furthermore the exam treadmill which doesn't allow teachers the scope to go off spec, means there is less scope for individual thinking / learning. Even degrees with all this 'must average x% for a 2:1' etc probably to some extent discourages risk taking. So many youngsters will have been trained to stay within the rules, do what is expected etc.

Mental health.
There is much more visibility & discussion about this now. Of course this means that some will pathologise normal feelings (eg feeling anxious about exams or starting a new job, or feeling nervous before meeting new groups of people).
However it also means people will ask for help rather than just dropping out. It means that reasonable adjustments can be made.

My 17yo has had more 'adverse childhood experiences' than I'd care to list (starting with losing her main care give twice before she was 3), the pandemic was the straw that broke the camel's back. Her resilience is low, but in no way is she a snowflake.

@beastlyslumber

Young people do need to learn to cope with the vagaries of ordinary life. Not everything is easy and you do need to be able to cope with that. Coping might include getting counselling, but it also might include sports, praying, getting involved in community life, or nurturing close family relationships.

I think someone mentioned this already but the truth is that ordinary life is not easy. No one feels good or happy all of the time. Everyone has problems to cope with. And yet there is a pervasive current in society that suggests normal unhappiness and anxiety are problems that need to be fixed.

In the UK, society is the safest and most prosperous it has been in basically all of human history. The freedoms, opportunities, and luxuries afforded to young people is beyond what our forebears could have imagined. And yet it seems we are unhappier and more anxious than ever.

Maybe too much safety and comfort isn't actually good for humans? We have evolved brains that are hyper aware of threats, and bodies that are responsive to dangers. But there are no threats and dangers to occupy us or run away from and so we end up feeling existentially challenged by what are quite trivial things?

Again with the generalisation and assumption that "if I'm fine ,everyone is".

No threats or dangers? I have kids with parents that are drug addicts/dealers. I have kids who live with siblings that are destructive and violent. I have kids that live with abuse and neglect . I have kids that have been removed by SS. I have kids that are being looked by family members and can't even see their parents. I have kids that were abused in foster care, after promises of being safe.

My kids aren't snowflakes(no matter how high their needs are), they're survivors and doing their absolute best . They're fucking amazing!

But sure, talk in absolutes and with rose tinted glasses about the wonderful ,privileged, wealthy and safe UK.
Let's forget about the kids and people living in poverty. Let's forget about the two women a week being killed. Let's forget about all the kids in care. Let's forget about systemic abuse and grooming gangs . Let's forget of what effect this will have on the children involved and sometimes by extension on their peers.

I think this talk of resilience is all well and good, but it can seem to be another thing to bash people with when they are already down.
You're struggling? It's your fault - you have no resilience!

A bit like when people talk about 'fighting' or 'beating' cancer. It can give the impression that people who don't recover just didn't try hard enough.

So helping build resilience is good. But you need to also accept that some people are so bashed about by life that their natural resilience gets worn away. 'What doesn't kill you makes you stronger' is all very well and good, until actually if you have enough of it it may not kill you (but in some cases sadly does) but may still damage you massively.

Again with the generalisation and assumption that "if I'm fine ,everyone is".

That's not at all what I said. Not sure why you're so angry with me.

Try reading my post again? You're attacking a strawman.

My 13 year old DS has a paper round, 7 days a week. He also wants to make money by selling at school ( which I cannot endorse )

DD nearly 17, has a part time job, but still receives an allowance each week, to fund travel etc

Both get around by bus, train and lifts.

I promote independence and resilience.

Life was very different 40 odd years ago when I was a kid. I worked as a student and didn’t have time off etc. My kids are doing the same.
Are they snowflakes ( whatever that is?)

I agree that young people who have achieved a good degree in their field, largely don't want to do basic tasks like photocopying or making tea. But in many entry-level jobs, including those that will progress to high-paid careers, that is the reality of your first job.
We have had issues with this in our workplace. Also issues with some not appreciating that our senior staff are international lead, don't piss them off by refusing to do a bit of photocopying, they really can help your long-term career.

Not much mention here made of play. For thousands of years children learned and developed through free play with mixed age peer groups. This would have stopped only a generation ago when cars took over out streets and both parents had to have jobs to pay the bills. Its a massive massive loss for children compounded by an overly formal education system.

Our children and teenagers are being denied playful years when they need them to develop resilience and interpersonal skills. Literally how to get on with others and cope with minor set backs.

The UK is particularly bad because we strip play from the school experience starting St 4 or 5. In most countries children mainly play until 7.

We have imprisoned children in homes and schools and they have very little freedom or autonomy. Organised play with one friend at a time has replaced 30 kids out playing group games for hours in the street.

This is a huge loss for both mental and physical health

We teach kids from 4 years old that they have to move in a line from achievement to achievement. From year 1 to year 2 onwards to work life as an adult. We are removing the joy if just being a child and just enjoying playing and being in the world. We are over stressing them with exams and obsession about attainment and ludicrous uniform rules.

It is no wonder they are stressed

Also I don't call someone a snowflake for having counselling or psychological help or being on ADs. My generation (Gen X) tended to bury our issues then drink/smoke/take pills to deal with them. This does not demonstrate resilience either, or a healthy way of dealing with strong emotions or mental health problems.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose

Many [young people] were so pampered nowadays that they had forgotten that there was such a thing as walking, and they made automatically for the buses… unless they did something, the future for walking was very poor indeed.” Scottish Rights of Way: More Young People Should Use Them, Falkirk Herald, 1951

Whither are the manly vigour and athletic appearance of our forefathers flown? Can these be their legitimate heirs? Surely, no; a race of effeminate, self-admiring, emaciated fribbles can never have descended in a direct line from the heroes of Potiers and Agincourt...”
Letter in Town and Country magazine republished in Paris Fashion: A Cultural History, 1771

We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.”
The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925

They think they know everything, and are always quite sure about it.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle, 4th Century BC

It’s an irony, but so many of us are a cautious, nervous, conservative crew that some of the elders who five years ago feared that we might come trooping home full of foreign radical ideas are now afraid that the opposite might be too true, and that we could be lacking some of the old American gambling spirit and enterprise.”
The Care and Handling of a Heritage: One of the “scared-rabbit” generation reassures wild-eyed elders about future, Life, 1950

Young people] are high-minded because they have not yet been humbled by life, nor have they experienced the force of circumstances.”
Rhetoric, Aristotle, 4th Century BC

What really distinguishes this generation from those before it is that it's the first generation in American history to live so well and complain so bitterly about it.”
The Boring Twenties, Washington Post, 1993

The beardless youth… does not foresee what is useful, squandering his money.”
Horace, 1st Century BC

Cinemas and motor cars were blamed for a flagging interest among young people in present-day politics by ex-Provost JK Rutherford… [He] said he had been told by people in different political parties that it was almost impossible to get an audience for political meetings. There were, of course, many distractions such as the cinema…”
Young People and Politics, Kirkintilloch Herald, 1938

The Chairman alluding to the problem of young people and their English said his experience was that many did not seem able to express or convey to other people what they meant. They could not put their meaning into words, and found the same difficulty when it came to writing.”
Unable to Express Thoughts: Failing of Modern Young People, Gloucester Citizen, 1936

Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.”
Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938

Probably there is no period in history in which young people have given such emphatic utterance to a tendency to reject that which is old and to wish for that which is new.”
Young People Drinking More, Portsmouth Evening News, 1936

Sounds familiar?

Fantastic post, just wonderful.

Hmm
I get some of what you’re saying. When my dcs were small we used to walk to school (a mile), unless it was pouring or I was going straight to work. Some parents (who didn’t work) drove every day even though they lived closer. They said I was ‘so good’ to walk 😆
I didn’t make a big fuss if they grazed their knees but I’m not a gushy person. As long as it was just a graze etc. They also went to school
Unless properly ill (bad cold, sickness etc). Not home for a sniffle. It worked well.
But kids can’t work at 13 now, it’s hard to get a p/t job unless you are experienced or have connections (both teens have got jobs that way). The world isn’t the same as it was in the 70s & 80s. We’ve just gone through the worst 18 months in living memory so give teens some slack!!

Parenting is different today then it was, and varies from family to family. you cannot fairly compare your parents parenting to anybody else's especially from a totally different era.

I'm certain your upbringing would be different even with the same parents, if you were growing up todat

I do think it is good to encourage kids not to make a fuss about a graze or a bit of rain. I admit I find adults tiresome who make a fuss about a bit of rain.

I think today's society models anxiety. There are so many warning messages coming from the mass media, social media, health and education establishments it is not surprising that this affects the younger generation too. In this climate a natural response is to become defensive, risk averse and overly vigilant.

Everyone just needs a bit of a break, quite frankly, from criticism, scrutiny which can lead to unhealthy amounts of intereflection IMO.

So if you want more resilience from people then stop criticising them, blaming them and start encouraging and reassuring them.

And tbh the ones that became 'resilient' from my generation had just learnt to regard critical elders as 'past it' and we merrily rebelled and ignored them!

I'm not sure that's the response you would want, OP!

I actually think the younger generation need to rebel more.

I actually think the younger generation need to rebel more

Don't think teachers, such as the op, would particularly like that!

I am sure not. I don't mean mindless misbehaviour. But it does the older generation good to have the younger generation challenge their thinking and orthodoxies around life.

I am sure not. I don't mean mindless misbehaviour. But it does the older generation good to have the younger generation challenge their thinking and orthodoxies around life.

We don't get to pick and choose exactly how the younger generation rebel, though. I can safely say it won't necessarily mean they've got the confidence not to bother us for validation upon the minutiae of their lives. It won't necessarily be so we can have an interesting, enlightening and thought provoking debate.

I think it is more the case that harsh criticism and scrutiny from the older generation is getting turned round upon the person dishing it out. It then becomes an onerous problem to tackle as it results in too great a proportion of everyday life requiring of their validation in order go forward. If this is purposeful, it is quite clever, as rebellious tactics go, really. It not only negates personal responsibility but also creates a huge amount of sympathy (from others) and annoyance (for the target)!

@JustDanceAddict

Hmm I get some of what you’re saying. When my dcs were small we used to walk to school (a mile), unless it was pouring or I was going straight to work. Some parents (who didn’t work) drove every day even though they lived closer. They said I was ‘so good’ to walk 😆 I didn’t make a big fuss if they grazed their knees but I’m not a gushy person. As long as it was just a graze etc. They also went to school Unless properly ill (bad cold, sickness etc). Not home for a sniffle. It worked well. But kids can’t work at 13 now, it’s hard to get a p/t job unless you are experienced or have connections (both teens have got jobs that way). The world isn’t the same as it was in the 70s & 80s. We’ve just gone through the worst 18 months in living memory so give teens some slack!!

Not the worst 18 months in living memory, surely. What about children being evacuated during the war / the bombings?

I didn't bring up my son the way my parents brought me up. Mainly because you are only a child once and I wanted him to have joyful memories about it, rather than regarding childhood as that boring time in which you wait to become an adult.

So my son didn't get a job until the summer after he finished his A-levels. But then, he worked 40 hours a week and saved all his money for university. He's definitely not a snowflake, but rather a well rounded confident and caring man who has travelled abroad to see family on his own from age 13, and who has grown up with the confidence obtained from knowing your parent(-s) are there to support you.

There are many years to work and cope with the nasty parts of life, so I am glad I could offer him the opportunity to enjoy childhood without so many worries.

"Snowflake" is not a nice term. That said, I do think that we are raising young people who are far less resilient and self-reliant than they used to be. I work in a university and I see this all the time: students who have never caught a bus on their own, helicopter parents who ring in about the slightest thing (yesterday I had a mum ring in demanding to speak to "the Dean" because her (adult) son hadn't got on to the football team).

They want their hand held for everything - being told what books to read, even where to find them in the library, and then complain on the National Student Survey when they don't get these things until they do.

Well I agree with you on some point however I don't recognise what you describe in our school playground. The dc are generally tough and don't want adult help. I'll add that I work in an area of high and widespread deprivation and it's likely that at best many don't cry or want the attention because their parents are disinterested and it's not something they are used to getting and at worst because to them adults don't equal safety.

beastlyslumber

And yet the OP's thread has generated some really interesting discussions about mental health, education, parenting, social media, technology and more. So clearly she did have something very worthwhile to contribute. Focusing on one word and ignoring the rest of the discussion seems a bit silly.“

Fair point. Others have contributed very interesting and valid points. OP continues to spout bigoted nonsense.