Are we bringing up a nation of snowflakes??

[shellstarbarley]

Are this generation of kids going to be a nation of snowflakes? I am bringing my children up the way my mum brought me up and I would say I am quite a strong person with minimal issues. I work in a primary school and every little graze or bump has to be accounted for children fall over and cry and scream until somebody comes, very few kids seem to just get up and dust themselves off and carry on. My kids rarely have a day off school but their friends seem to be off for any little thing and everyone seems to be dying when they have a cold or a sprained wrist etc. Parents won't let their children walk to school or even catch a bus so they are reliant at parents at all times. When we were 13 all our pocket money was stopped and she we had to find a part time job I did a paperround, babysitting and washed up in a local pub my brother mucked out at a stables and my other brother helped on our cousins farm. I know now it is much harder to get jobs like it was then but teens parents seem to do so much for them that they can't do much for themselves anymore. I loved being busy and still do and loved the responsibility in my part time jobs aand I remember my dad saying to me when I was out of work in my early 20's and claiming benefits that the one thing I cettainly wasn't was lazy but I would always be out doing something constructive whilst looking for work as they had instilled this strong ethic in me. We got buses and walked everywhere and we never lied to our parents we always told them where we were or used a landline at a friends house or phone box if our plans changed. Maybe looking back as my mum worked full time it was a bit of a parenting cop out. I don't know. BUT I am sure this made us strong adults. I don't give up everytime I get a cold or period pain dose up and carry on like wise I don't miss work. I also remember phoning and booking my own hair and dental and dr appts and even going to doc appts on my own at 15. I am trying really hard to bring my kids up this way but is so hard because their friends get lifts everywhere , their parents give them an endless supply of money and shower them with sympathy every time they have a sniffle or a grazed knee. I want my kids to be able to survive in the adult world because actually it is quite a harsh place and you have to be strong and determined to fight against the problems you may come up against and I think my parents did me a massive favour as I feel able to cope with adult life and conquer the problems because I learnt to build up strategies when I was growing up and not be 100% reliant on my parents for everything.

@Treeoutside

Funny how those disagreeing with OP can't come up with anything other than abuse. No actual arguments.

I don't agree with the OP, but I have not abused her. I have merely stated my opinion and my personal experience.

Maybe partly because of the unremitting focus on MH issues, but the young people who turn up in my classes are nowhere near as smart as they used to be, either. They cannot do things that they should have mastered by the age of 15 or 16 and have zero general knowledge.

Standards have been deteriorating for a while, but it used to be you'd still have a few bright sparks that elevated everyone else. Maybe I've been unlucky, but the past few years the standard has steadily declined. The students have been mostly lovely, but very vulnerable, afflicted by MH issues, no idea how to study, and no thinking skills.

I was listening to Glen Lowry on Bari Weiss' podcast recently. He teaches economics and one of the things he said was that about a third of his students' eyes just glaze over if he puts a mathematical formula on the board. In one of the top universities in the US.

It's not that people are getting stupider per se. But we have lowered standards year on year to the point where students who do not read other than on their phones and can barely write a coherent sentence are accepted onto degree courses.

• Not a third of their eyes. But the eyes of a third of his students...

@Treeoutside

Funny how those disagreeing with OP can't come up with anything other than abuse. No actual arguments.

I acknowledge that some have done more than abuse the OP. But there's been a log of straight sarcasm / abuse which is a waste of everyone's time. If you disagree, why not explain why? Those who disagree with the OP - it would be great if you could comment on what a couple of university lecturers, and employers too, are saying, which I personally find extremely concerning. Do you find it concerning too? What do you think can be done to improve things? This is really making me think twice about sending my DD to university in the UK.

@beastlyslumber

Maybe partly because of the unremitting focus on MH issues, but the young people who turn up in my classes are nowhere near as smart as they used to be, either. They cannot do things that they should have mastered by the age of 15 or 16 and have zero general knowledge.

Standards have been deteriorating for a while, but it used to be you'd still have a few bright sparks that elevated everyone else. Maybe I've been unlucky, but the past few years the standard has steadily declined. The students have been mostly lovely, but very vulnerable, afflicted by MH issues, no idea how to study, and no thinking skills.

I was listening to Glen Lowry on Bari Weiss' podcast recently. He teaches economics and one of the things he said was that about a third of his students' eyes just glaze over if he puts a mathematical formula on the board. In one of the top universities in the US.

It's not that people are getting stupider per se. But we have lowered standards year on year to the point where students who do not read other than on their phones and can barely write a coherent sentence are accepted onto degree courses.

Do you think this is the case for top universities in the UK? Or does it mainly affect lower ranking universities?

@Treeoutside

Funny how those disagreeing with OP can't come up with anything other than abuse. No actual arguments.

I have no argument. My 'argument' is that we all parent differently and do whatever works for us and our dc.

Op sounds totally narrow minded and extremely judgmental and I find it worrying that someone like this is a teacher!

I also find her patronising use of the term snowflake irritating and think someone working in education should have a better understanding of what it actually means.

It's one of those words where the commonly understood meaning has changed.

@Treeoutside, no I'm not really concerned by what other posters have said as my own experience doesn't really back this up. I have had lots of contact with university students and new graduates through my professional role, and I don't really find them any less resilient or capable than they were when I was a student 30 years ago. Yes, a little more open about mental health issues, I think, but not necessarily any more fragile.

I think a lot of people like to moan about the younger generation, but that doesn't mean their complaints necessarily have any basis in reality. Older generations have always moaned about younger ones. Someone further up the thread commented that young people now are focused on their rights but not on their responsibilities. Again, not true in my experience. For example, my 16yo and her friends have all taken it upon themselves to do daily lateral flow tests recently because of covid cases in school. Nobody has told them to do it but none of them want to pass it on.

Most of the young people I know are actually pretty cool. Resilient but willing to acknowledge their vulnerability. Open-minded but willing to call others out when they're in the wrong. Independent but not not afraid to ask for help when they need it.

The main argument is that OP is comparing apples and oranges.

Society is not suitable anymore to many of the things she objects to.

Schools won't let children walk home by themselves until they are y5 at least. Even then, with ever extended catchments some kids have long journeys on foot/bike by themselves without classmates to join them.

Some kids can't play outside because there's no one to play outside with.

Certain freedoms that might've been normal means some well intended person calling the police or SS on you. There is no village, there is no strength in numbers.

There's more awareness of the various dangers of too much freedom and neglect, even benign neglect.

Then there's school and All the added traumas and stressors like chaotic home lives,abuse,neglect, living with an addict etc . Years ago that would've meant kids dropping out, leaving home, or just not bothering and being excluded anyways. Today they have to carry all that baggage and go to school and behave the right way and learn in the right way.

OP seems to propose a sink or swim approach. She's obviously a swimmer , what about all the kids from her generation that have sunk?

@beastlyslumber what I don't understand is that although you say standards are slipping, GCSEs seem far harder now than when I did them many years ago. I don't remember doing half the topics he is studying in maths for example. I wonder if there are a number of people who go to university now, who wouldn't have when I was younger.

There does seem to be a lack of interest in general knowledge among his peer group which shows when they do fun quizzes at school which is a shame.

I think that, in general, children today are much more inclusive and accepting than when I went to school. I think it's a shame to not look at the positives of the younger generation

@Acerola

I think that, in general, children today are much more inclusive and accepting than when I went to school. I think it's a shame to not look at the positives of the younger generation

Here here!!

My dc have the most amazing friends, they are accepting of everyone, in a way that would have seemed unimaginable when I was young!

I think kids today are more emotionally intelligent too. They understand the value of communication. They understand the need for better conflict resolution. They understand the need to set boundaries and have bodily autonomy. They're more emotionally aware.

I'd take that over the frankly neglectful, dismissive, abusive are bring many of us experienced in the 70s and 80s.

We get a lot of young people in my workplace, these are the top percentage of young adults academically brought in. They tend to have amazing presentation and group work skills, far better than I had at their age. But suggest they travel by train themselves to a meeting in a City they have never been, then they start to panic.

@Acerola and @AlexaShutUp agree with you both. I've worked training our new graduates both this and last year and I have teenagers myself. Both sets of graduates are keen, hardworking, inventive, sparky and energising to be around despite having the education they've paid thousands for being severely disrupted and joining work in pandemic times when everything is tits up and all the big managers are at home on zoom. Similarly my teens are working incredibly hard too, knuckling down, supporting each other, full if ideas and dreams and plans. Nothing at all snowflakey about the kids who are up and coming now.

I just feel bad for them that all the Brexit etc is putting a downer on their entry into adulthood. Especially given that literally none of them voted for it. They couldn't, because they were too young!

I also suspect anxiety has increased because the younger generation has in general not been given enough freedom or independence.

@Acerola

I think that, in general, children today are much more inclusive and accepting than when I went to school. I think it's a shame to not look at the positives of the younger generation

This!

And I know plenty of kids who were pandered by their parents when I was a child.

Lol I think anxiety has increased because we told them all they'd kill their grandparents and then pretty much closed down children's services, CAMHS, schools, disability services etc.

@ImaBraveNhsHero the increase in anxiety was pre pandemic. Every age range is more anxious since the pandemic.

@AccidentallyOnPurpose But it appears that far more children from this generation are sinking, compared to previous generations. It was incredibly unusual for there to be serious mental health problems in my peer group growing up. Yes, no doubt some were swept under the carpet or not talked about, but the default was you trundled along okay.

Educators and parents are routinely saying that teenagers and young adults are far more stressed and unhappy than ever. And yet they are getting and expecting unprecedented levels of support, so something is not stacking up.

Part of the reason we have so many anxious teens is because we pathologise a lot of normal feelings.
Feeling sad and worried sometimes is normal. Not knowing which way is up is normal as a teenager. We have lost sight of that i t hink.

[quote Acerola]@beastlyslumber what I don't understand is that although you say standards are slipping, GCSEs seem far harder now than when I did them many years ago. I don't remember doing half the topics he is studying in maths for example. I wonder if there are a number of people who go to university now, who wouldn't have when I was younger.

There does seem to be a lack of interest in general knowledge among his peer group which shows when they do fun quizzes at school which is a shame. [/quote]
That's my experience, and it does seem to be echoed by many others. I've been teaching/lecturing for 30 years and standards have definitely been lowered - exams and assessments are much easier to pass and students get all sorts of help up to and including giving them the actual answers. Teachers are not allowed to fail students or give the grades they deserve.

It may be that it isn't the case across the board. I honestly can't speak to maths education - very much not my field!

It doesn't help that young people are now encouraged/expected to go to university when in previous generations they would have had opportunities to work or do training. 'Access for all' was a very flawed policy. I do think the most savvy young people now are missing out university unless they have a very specialised career in mind. I certainly wouldn't go and do a humanities degree now, for example.

God yes!

Things are different now. I used to get the bus to school but my mother accompanied me to a London terminal at the age of 16 to catch a train. My DC were expected to do it by themselves everyday to get to school from the start of year 7. I took O levels where there was a track record of what the exams were like and how they were marked going back decades. DC these days are sitting new exams with teething problems and what was the second to top grade ie a B is now 6/9 which doesn't sound great.

School league tables mean that most schools are over focussed on academics rather than the rounded person, mobile phones mean that children never get away from online bullying, boys watch porn from an increasingly early age and objectify and abuse their female peers - I don't know a single teenage girl who hasn't had trouble with this whether they go to a mixed or single sex school. Young people are constantly bombarded with information on how they should look/dress/behave etc.

So no - I don't think we are breeding a generation of snowflakes. I think we are overloading children with expectations that are almost impossible to fulfill and I suspect that we are breeding a generation that will end up with a lot of mental health issues (and that's before we get on to what COVID and lockdown isolation has done to them).

Maybe psychiatry doesn't have the answers? It's only a theory/model. There have been epidemics of anxiety before - eg housewives in the 60s - and depression - eg Prozac poppers in the 90s. Psychiatric intervention didn't achieve much then either.

But that's a different question.