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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Son and very right wing racist views

247 replies

Strawberry33 · 07/01/2021 22:40

My son 14 has been extremely influenced during the past year by stuff in the media that he now calls lefty propaganda and some unfortunate experiences. He now has decided to completely shun our families values and wants to become a right wing politician. He’s very bright but been debating with teachers and pupils today in his online learning and I’m worried he’s going to be punished and silenced which seems to only feed into his views.
Just to add he’s not at all violent, aggressive or nasty towards people of any group. If he was I’d definitely get police involved or counter extremism involvement.
I just want to shape his views but he just digs his heels in more and more! X

OP posts:
hamstersarse · 08/01/2021 07:52

@Strawberry33

Twilighttostarlight- sorry what Im trying to say is he’s not behaving in a nasty way towards anyone like calling anyone names, excluding any one or any sort of bullying. He’s not denigrating anyone’s religion or culture or picking on anyone over it. He is however arguing with everything he feels is being pushed onto him like white privelage for eg, saying in his school (majority black inner London school) hes the one who can’t say anything therefor he’s oppressed. he’s getting into debates over history like he got very annoyed when the school showed them a bbc video reenactment of Roman Britain with lots of black cast as Romans. He likes everything to be very literal. He told the teacher it was ridiculous. Hes also anti- benefits and beleive a lot of the usual sun and daily Mail type stuff about the “left”. Thinks immigration is wrong and that brexit is good ect ect
I think we’ll see more of this type of politics from young white men. I can see why they are landing here. The constant accusations of racism, fascism, sexism don’t help. At all.

He sounds like a bright boy, and I wouldn’t dismiss his ideas, I’d talk about them with him, properly.

SimonJT · 08/01/2021 07:58

@MaMaD1990

To me it just sounds like you both have different political views on the world and perhaps that's why you're worrying so much? If he doesn't agree with things like immigration, does that really make him a racist? It sounds like he feels like he isn't listened to or respected in his view points (perhaps because he's 14?). I'm not sure trying to push him into your way of thinking is a good idea, perhaps its a case of keep an eye on him and what he is reading online (make sure he isn't being groomed in any way), have debates about your own views but leave it at that. He may feel differently as he gets older and has more experiences in the world with other people.
He thinks people who aren’t white aren’t British. Thats textbook racism.
TroubleInSnowland · 08/01/2021 08:01

I have an older teenage boy and we went through similar when he was in his early teens. They are trying to learn the ways of the world but with limited experience. For example, when they learn about Equality and diversity it doesn’t always make sense that people from ethnic minority groups can have a selective advantage at universities. We just point out why these policies are needed, talking about unconscious bias and using people we know as examples so it becomes personal to him. It has been difficult at times because his views are sometimes very different to ours but this is part of growing up for him and parenting for us. However we are confident that he is not being groomed and that his comments are just him trying to make sense of the world. If I thought there was any chance of it being more than that (or it being a permanent view), then I would probably speak to school for advice.

MaMaD1990 · 08/01/2021 08:02

@SimomJT I've just read this update, they didn't all load when I posted 😒 yes, well that obviously is racist and should be challenged.

RosesforMama · 08/01/2021 08:05

My autistic DS got mildly into men's rights aged about 13-14. It was based around men being oppressed because in divorce and childcare settlements women usually get "more". I think it was Reddit. If he is autistic then he needs teaching with facts and logic as described above. Teach him the nuance of something. If he says other races were enslaved, agree with him but point out it's currently irrelevant and people are allowed to focus on one area for campaigning. For example, if I am fundraising for pancreatic cancer, does that mean I deny that breast cancer exists? Or that it needs funding? No - I am just focusing on pancreatic cancer right now.

Tbh if he is autistic it would be useful to explore diagnosis as part of the "defence" is reminding him of the tendency of his neurotype to research deep but narrow, when sometimes wide research is needed to see the bigger picture. Works with my son (now late teens and not in that "men are oppressed" headspace any more).

blueangel19 · 08/01/2021 08:07

*How ridiculous that people are suggesting you report him etc. He totally should be allowed to have "right wing" views. Tories were voted in as was Brexit. It's not like some small group of people believing in aliens!! Its a majority.

I disagree with his racist views, and on that he should be challenged. However, I totally get where he says he feels oppressed. Since the BLM movement, my children have been made to feel somewhat responsible and as if they themselves should be ashamed. And don't get me started on the number of times they've been told they are white privileged. Its caused a huge divide at their school now, and wrong to make children feel ashamed of being white.*

Does people really think of the ramifications of this madness? Is this really helping society?

blueangel19 · 08/01/2021 08:13

To me it just sounds like you both have different political views on the world and perhaps that's why you're worrying so much? If he doesn't agree with things like immigration, does that really make him a racist? It sounds like he feels like he isn't listened to or respected in his view points (perhaps because he's 14?). I'm not sure trying to push him into your way of thinking is a good idea, perhaps its a case of keep an eye on him and what he is reading online (make sure he isn't being groomed in any way), have debates about your own views but leave it at that. He may feel differently as he gets older and has more experiences in the world with other people.

This.

KaptainKaveman · 08/01/2021 08:18

@TulesDana

Honestly, I think it sounds like your son is thinking clearly rather than swallowing the white guilt that's rammed down our children's throats from every angle. Yes all races have been enslaved, why would it concern you that he is preferring to see facts? Would it bother you if he was concerned at the plight of the white farmers in South Africa? Or should he only have concerns about the well-being and feelings of non whites?
It is also true that the overwhelming majority of SA farmland - about 70% according to Reuters - is owned by less than 9% of the country's 58 million population, all of that 9% comprising White Afrikaaners. The colonisers.

You sound angry TulesDana but sadly you cannot erase the effects of systematic land grab and subjugation. If you steal someone's land, they will wrench it back, eventually.

Katjolo · 08/01/2021 08:19

His view points need to be challenged and I agree that a mentor may help. I would worry about how far he may take this view point. Will it become extreme? Maybe not, but I would still be concerned. YouTube is a perfect place for people to get obsessed with a particular view point, including far right. In my opinion, his view points seem definitely Far Right, e.g. UKIP/ BNP rather than Tory.

Katjolo · 08/01/2021 08:20

*average Tory I would add

OTannenbaum · 08/01/2021 08:23

I agree I’d separate out the racism from the right wing views (I understand on the far right the two can get a bit blurred), and focus on tackling the racism I think for now. As others have said it’s not uncommon for people to vote Tory much as I might personally disagree with it! The black people are not British thing is the only example you have given which I would consider to be out and out racism, and the other things he mentions I think have some arguments on both sides really (although it’s nuanced, I hadn’t heard the thing about the Coco Pops monkey and just googled it, initially I also thought it was a ridiculous fuss about nothing - but then when it’s pointed out that Kellogg was a racist and eugenicist himself who funded organisations trying to prove white superiority then you can understand why people may be reading things in to the monkey on the cereal box which may or may not have been intended).

It might be more effective rather than flatly telling him his views are wrong, to engage in trying to identify both sides of an argument with him (where there are realistically two sides, I think saying black people aren’t British is a non-starter) eg. looking at the pros of immigration and what immigrants to this country contribute etc versus acknowledging that Britain has had a high level of immigration for some time now and that it has changed the social and cultural make-up of many places.

I was going to ask if he had been bullied but then I read that he has. It’s not an excuse but if your experience of white people (family and primary school friends maybe) is largely positive and you then encounter bullies at a majority black school (who are therefore presumably black themselves), I could see how that might be part of forming an overall negative impression of black people. (As an aside why on earth did they not punish the girl?! I think he’s right to say that was sexist of the school.

I think very few white people in the UK have real lived experience of being in a majority black environment for any length of time and I have found it surprisingly difficult/stressful, for reasons I would struggle to explain even to myself (my ex was black and I at one stage went to a church with him where there were only one or two other white faces). Just realising that you are the minority now in terms of not only how you look but your cultural background is surprisingly confronting. It really gives you an appreciation for how difficult it must be for other races being in a majority white environment all the time. So I suspect his essentially being a minority in his everyday life may have a larger role than you think in making him feel “oppressed”. And bullying has probably magnified this. However having black friends should mitigate against this. Another school environment might make a difference, especially if you say you feel the school aren’t handling this well (I agree it’s useful to make sure the school know his views are not coming from the family unit).

I’d definitely have a look at what hes watching online, my son is 13 and definitely holds some views that I was struggling to work out precisely where they came from (eg he is strongly pro trans - I’m not anti trans but it’s just not something we’ve ever really spoken about until recently, and he goes to a school with majority first generation immigrants who for the most part aren’t exactly pro LGBTQ in day to day school life looking at the gay slurs on the school Whatsapp groups). Then I had a look at what he’s been watching on YouTube and realised he’s gone down a rabbit hole of watching videos of the sort of gaming stuff etc he likes which happen to be made by trans people and listened to a few and understood where he’s getting his opinions!

I don’t know I would handle this OP, it does sound difficult. I can understand why people are suggesting Prevent but I’m not sure if this might be overkill, depending just how extreme his views are. I guess I do have some sympathy for young white men right now in that both their sex and race in the UK are coming under heavy criticism at the moment at a time when they are forming identities and unfortunately I suspect he’s not the only one to feel aggrieved about it. To be honest I personally know several white men (no longer teens) who feel similarly “oppressed” at the moment although I don’t totally agree with all their views. Having said that I think we needed both metoo and BLM etc. I just hope we aren’t storing up more problems for the future for ourselves with a massive backlash.

Pyewhacket · 08/01/2021 08:37

Sounds like he is starting to question the political agenda at school and at home. That you see that as extreme right wing racist is just another example of what is shaping his opinions.

CabinClose · 08/01/2021 08:52

I think he’s already slipped over the edge here. I find his right wing views unpalatable, but unfortunately many have been normalised at the minute. UKIP and Brexit have made being anti-immigration mainstream for example.

But I think your son is falling on to the other side here. Would even Nigel Farage say black people cant be British? No. Your son has gone to the right of the acceptable mainstream. And now he’s objecting to seeing black roman soldiers. There were loads of black Roman soldiers, it was an extensive empire. He’s denying fact to fit with racism. And saying he’s silenced as a white person when we have a PM who wrote about picanninies? He’s already been radicalised and needs help urgently.

CabinClose · 08/01/2021 08:54

@blueangel19 If you can’t acknowledge you and your kids have white privilege, then you’re a racist too.

Jetatyeovilaerodrome · 08/01/2021 08:57

@ThePlantsitter

I think planderaccordement's approach is the right one. Read 'how to be right' by James O'Brien - I know lots of people don't like him/think he's up himself but he does give examples of how asking questions can get to the nub of what are in the end self evidently silly ideas.
Really? That's.... interesting coming from James O'brien, but that's probably for another thread... Grin
Cattasaurus · 08/01/2021 09:01

@Strawberry33

Bluebell798

I actually encourage debate in our house and that’s why he is comfortable airing his opinions so it’s not that I just want him to agree with me. I just don’t want him getting in trouble . And It’s not just that though. He has some valid points sometimes. But other times he says things that really are racist in my mind like saying black people aren’t British, we shouldn’t have any immigration at all, he believes everything he reads about people complaining about stuff like the coco pops monkey and the woman who complained about that, he will say that other races think everything is racist. He also says that black people commit more crimes. :-/

Not wanting any immigration isn't racist it's pragmatic in a housing crisis. It's only racist if you apply a race to it. Plenty of white Americans south Africans who would be affected.

Look he sounds just like he doesn't agree with you. I don't agree with my parents doesn't mean my views need to be changed. I can completely agree with his statement about being attacked for being a white male. There are no special interest groups set up for them. Mumsnet is pretty woke handwringing and radical left with views well out side of the norm you hear even amongst my female friends.

I thinks that last statement is though statistically true (although I doubt it is anything to do with the person maybe the environment like high rates of absent father's inner city living and a certain culture as you can often hear expressed on their music) especially related to violent crime when adjusted for them being only 2% of the population but being 20% of convictions. White people have financial fraud all to ourselves near enough. Again afro Carribbean and black African have very different educational attainment rates despite being black (whatever that means)

blueangel19 · 08/01/2021 09:10

all CabinClose You are most definitely part of the problem. I am not white.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 08/01/2021 09:13

He simply has different, right wing views to yours. He doesn't sound extremist in the slightest. I kept reading all of your posts, waiting for the 'extremism' however it never came. Unless there is something major that you arent disclosing, he simply has a different point to yours. With all due respect, it's yourself that sounds the most radical out of the 2 of you, wanting to do anything and everything you can, including pulling him out of school, to get him to adhere to your own personal ideology. He'll find his way.

blueangel19 · 08/01/2021 09:15

And where did I mentioned anything for you to tell me that anyway?

hamstersarse · 08/01/2021 09:15

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

I agree

Chookie89 · 08/01/2021 09:26

It's quite amazing that the west's very recent attempts to discuss historical facts and their links to current inequalities is labelled by outraged white Britons as a nefarious 'political agenda' or 'ideology.'

Why are some white people so threatened by this?

Well done to the poster above who mentioned that healthy discussions about white privilege does not negate other people's suffering.

Case in point: My grandmother was a poor white woman in rural Australia. She was a survivor of sexual assault in her childhood and adult life; was abandoned my three different men who she'd had children with in desperate attempts to settle, and worked her absolute arse off for very little money until she was an old woman. That struggle was passed onto my dad's generation, who also did it really, really tough.

That said, the circumstances facing the average Indigenous Australian woman at the same time period would be (and remain) far, far more difficult. And it's okay to say that.

See? I can talk about both at the same time. I can remember and acknowledge the suffering of both parties, the violently sexist world each party faced, while acknowledge some important differences around race. I don't have to get my knickers in a twist!

Unfortunately social media flattens out all these nuances. Better to speak to real people about their experiences and community histories, where all the shades of grey are presented.

Stay123 · 08/01/2021 09:31

I agree that the white privilege thing has gone too far and that he might feel aggrieved. Just because he doesn’t agree with you doesn’t mean he should shut up. He is finding his way with his beliefs. He doesn’t want any more immigration. Is it any wonder seeing as he going to a school where he is in a minority? Why is that such an outrageous thing to say? He has been given no special treatment, not feigned over, he has been told he is very privileged when he doesn’t feel he is, and why should he? He is exploring other ways of thinking which is what teenagers do. It is very healthy that he does this and as long as he doesn’t go madly right wing you should let him.

Regularsizedrudy · 08/01/2021 09:32

Google the alt-right pipeline. he has been radicalised online.

RosesforMama · 08/01/2021 09:32

White privilege doesn't mean you are privileged. It means your race isn't one of the things making your life harder.
As a (possible) autistic person he is part of a severely oppressed minority though!

Hoiking · 08/01/2021 09:35

Maybe the fact you are hand-flapping at any factual but 'problematic' opinions he says isn't helping? The more you attempt to counter his facts, with lefty feelings, the more he will be vindicated.
The net of 'racism' has been cast far too wide nowadays, if disagreements over immigration makes him racist Hmm