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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

Son and very right wing racist views

247 replies

Strawberry33 · 07/01/2021 22:40

My son 14 has been extremely influenced during the past year by stuff in the media that he now calls lefty propaganda and some unfortunate experiences. He now has decided to completely shun our families values and wants to become a right wing politician. He’s very bright but been debating with teachers and pupils today in his online learning and I’m worried he’s going to be punished and silenced which seems to only feed into his views.
Just to add he’s not at all violent, aggressive or nasty towards people of any group. If he was I’d definitely get police involved or counter extremism involvement.
I just want to shape his views but he just digs his heels in more and more! X

OP posts:
Student133 · 08/01/2021 01:19

@sessell hmmm yeah not sure I agree that a classical liberal who's written against radical politics is a gateway intellectually, guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Where I do agree to a certain extent is the YouTube algorithm, which will feed you content you may like based on what you've watched, then progressing around political ideas. But equally you could start out at a Guardian video about race then get a recommendation for some nutty stuff, still doesn't make the Guardian a gateway to far right politics.

AcornAutumn · 08/01/2021 01:27

@borntohula

How the FUCK can anyone say that the statement 'black people aren't British' isn't racist? Not only racist, but fucking stupid too lol.
There's a lot of it about. I've lost count of the times I've been asked "but where are you REALLY from".

Identity politics, and racism dressed up as anti racism, is confusing for me at 44. I can't imagine what it's like at 14.

Honestly, people think they are being respectful of heritage or some such rubbish when they ask me questions about a country I've never seen.

I would cut the lad some slack and don't go near things like Prevent.

ViaGetty · 08/01/2021 01:30

So he needs to be reported to Prevent because he agrees with Brexit?

Wow.

inquietant · 08/01/2021 01:31

@ViaGetty

So he needs to be reported to Prevent because he agrees with Brexit?

Wow.

Hmm literally no one has said this
borntohula · 08/01/2021 01:32

@AcornAutumn I would also cut him some slack purely because he's a child, there is hope for him, unlike the nasty, bigoted ADULTS I used to see all over Facebook.

HmmSureJan · 08/01/2021 01:32

@AlexaShutUp

Channel (part of Prevent) is specifically intended to target support at an early stage - it isn't for people who are already involved in terrorism but for those who are at risk of being drawn in. Far right extremism is on the rise, and I understand that teenage boys are particularly vulnerable. Please don't think that his behaviour isn't extreme enough to trigger a referral.
Someone said his views could trigger a referral though...
MusicalTrifleMonkey · 08/01/2021 01:36

OP, is not worth looking at very early history with him and exploring the fact that we all descended from Africa and that we were all black at one stage? You say he likes history, if he understands where humans came from might that help to organise things a little in his head? It is worth looking at some prominent black figures throughout history? Is it just black vs white that he is feeling at the moment? His views are concerning. Also you mention that he is from a majority black pupil school, his views will be getting noticed and won’t be helping him with friendships. Have you had him assessed for special needs? You mentioned you think he is ASD?

MusicalTrifleMonkey · 08/01/2021 01:36

Is IT worth, not not

WitchesGlove · 08/01/2021 02:20

A racist is someone who believes that their race is superior to others.

Whilst his view that black people aren’t British is both incorrect and unpleasant, he isn’t actually saying anything bad about black people.

How does he feel about white immigrants? The ones that don’t have British citizenship?

Does your son know many black people and would he treat them differently in day to day life?

Original poster
Strawberry33 · 08/01/2021 04:12

Witches glove- he has some black friends and is respectful towards black teachers. I agree he must stand out and he has been bullied before he had these views. He says he doesn’t like immigration from white EU countries either. 😐

OP posts:
inquietant · 08/01/2021 06:36

@Strawberry33 could you talk to school, find out what they think?

If they observe low level racist attitudes, they may just assume he comes from a racist household, it might be good to dispel that view at least so they can keep an eye on him. You also don't know what he's doing/saying in school.settimgs - it could be better or worse than you think.

SimonJT · 08/01/2021 06:44

@borntohula

How the FUCK can anyone say that the statement 'black people aren't British' isn't racist? Not only racist, but fucking stupid too lol.
People who don’t think it is racist tend to be racist themselves, they also tend to be in the “where are you from camp”.
inquietant · 08/01/2021 06:55

Yes I agree with this, and the original comment you quote.

It is a bit like asking people who fight if violence is wrong.

Chookie89 · 08/01/2021 07:03

@PlanDeRaccordement it's racist to suggest Black people can't be British considering
a) They were captured, forcibly removed from their own communities and sent to work around the British empire;
b) The wealth their toil generated is a large part of the reason why Britain has been/remains extraordinarily wealthy. Millions of Africans died in unthinkable conditions building the British empire's wealth. The contribution of slave trade profits to the industrial revolution, for example, is staggering;
c) Yes slavery has existed in the past, but its role in a modern capitalist context (wherein surplus commodities were/are produced for reinvestment back into corporations) is new, and far more violent and far-reaching than prior systems.

Good luck @Strawberry33. There's a lot of pressure on kids, they're being exposed to complex debates couched in complex (and as you say, heavily nuanced histories), and it must be hard for kids and parents to navigate it all.

sashh · 08/01/2021 07:14

he got very annoyed when the school showed them a bbc video reenactment of Roman Britain with lots of black cast as Romans. He likes everything to be very literal. He told the teacher it was ridiculous.

But that's not ridiculous, Roman soldiers were recruited from all over the empire and it was policy to station them far from home. The first black British people were probably children of 'Roman' soldiers.

In more recent times millions of 'British subjects' from the Indian sub continent and the Caribbean fought so he can express his views.

Strange that he likes history but is so ignorant of it.

eattolose · 08/01/2021 07:19

@JustAnotherPoster00

We are on Mumsnet which tends to be somewhat left wing

How far to the right do you need to be to find MN on the left? PP do you find Nigel Farage to woke for you? Hmm

I agree that mumsnet is pretty lefty
inquietant · 08/01/2021 07:23

I find MN pretty polarised, plenty on both sides. I think it is just in real life there are more bubbles of thought so it feels odd.

HmmSureJan · 08/01/2021 07:28

Strange that he likes history but is so ignorant of it.

He's 14.

TopBants · 08/01/2021 07:31

He might be rebelling against you, subconsciously?

My DF is very right wing and racist and I went very left wing in my teenage years (think Corbyn), probably as a consequence of having to listen to DF bang on about the BNP and their ilk for years growing up. Now, as a thirty-something, I'm more centrist and tend to pick my party based on their local candidate's manifesto.

You could refer to the prevent pathway (teachers may contact you about this anyway if he's going on about it in school) but I can see why you wouldn't want to. I don't think I would personally, unless I felt he was actually at risk of consorting with terrorists/being influenced to do something (this might be more of a concern than it otherwise would be, given you think he is on the spectrum).

Barring genuine concern for the potential to be drawn into extremist groups and actions, personally I don't think I'd engage in debate with him. I'd just refuse to be drawn in and go for a very non-commital response. If he gets no rise out of you for it he may lose interest. Also, see if you can increase his exposure to people from other backgrounds, religions and races in a non-obvious way. I think that the best way to change someone's mind is not to tell them they're wrong, but give them the information they need to interrogate and challenge their own views.

PinkyParrot · 08/01/2021 07:34

I would try to get him to read up on proper history not the modified version to suit modern tastes of now. I remember reading about colonists in Australia, this is once the colonies were established, shooting aborigine people for sport, like big game hunting - without the dangers!
REally shocked me.
The way the bison were destroyed in the US to force the native americans out. There is lots of interesting history out there - how the people of Lancashire starved during the American Civil War because the cotton trade was stopped.
School taught history is too simplified to be really interesting - not trying to disguise the facts but there is so much history in the UK!
And social media is too white people bad, black people good.
Perhaps he could look at the history of Africa where black slaves originated from. Not about the slavery but the history of tribal kings and wars etc

YouJustDoYou · 08/01/2021 07:34

Channel (part of Prevent) is specifically intended to target support at an early stage - it isn't for people who are already involved in terrorism but for those who are at risk of being drawn in. Far right extremism is on the rise, and I understand that teenage boys are particularly vulnerable. Please don't think that his behaviour isn't extreme enough to trigger a referral

This. Part of the training when you're a teacher and you take the training in Prevent is to recognise when a child, and at 14 your son is still a child, is radicalized for any views that are seen as "adult influenced" extreme views. Were he in my school or in my online classes his new comments and new viewpoints would certainly indicate a red flag for me and trigger a referral. It's not a major, hard, come down on him. But the material he's viewing and the viewpoints he now has might not seem.much but the point is they are the start often of a snow ball of thoughts, actions, and events that grow as the child grows. It's up to you mum, but I personally would talk to a teacher about triggering Prevent action, especially if he were my own child.

IgnoranceIsStrength · 08/01/2021 07:37

Please speak to your safeguarding about PREVENT. Some of the staff working for PREVENT that they assign to teenagers have gone through similar. They were angry teenagers who got caught up on the extreme right wing, got in trouble and now try to help others and stop the cycle. I have worked with a few and they are non judgemental and supportive

MaMaD1990 · 08/01/2021 07:41

To me it just sounds like you both have different political views on the world and perhaps that's why you're worrying so much? If he doesn't agree with things like immigration, does that really make him a racist? It sounds like he feels like he isn't listened to or respected in his view points (perhaps because he's 14?). I'm not sure trying to push him into your way of thinking is a good idea, perhaps its a case of keep an eye on him and what he is reading online (make sure he isn't being groomed in any way), have debates about your own views but leave it at that. He may feel differently as he gets older and has more experiences in the world with other people.

DazzlePaintedBattlePants · 08/01/2021 07:42

Or,before going off at the deep end about PREVENT and safeguarding referrals you could limit what dross he’s looking at on the internet?

I agree that there are many people far worse out there than Peterson, and that you are on a hiding to nothing telling a teenage white boy in a majority black school, who’s not having a particularly great time, that he should behold all the white privilege he benefits from....

Eggcorns · 08/01/2021 07:51

@JustAnotherPoster00

We are on Mumsnet which tends to be somewhat left wing

How far to the right do you need to be to find MN on the left? PP do you find Nigel Farage to woke for you? Hmm

Yes, I frequently find it hilarious there’s a general view Mn is ‘left wing, when if you cracked it in half, it would have ‘ Centre Right’ written all through it like a stick of rock.

OP, I agree with a pp who suggested making the film about Roman Britain a teaching moment — Roman Britain was pretty ethnically diverse, with lots of North Africans in particular, and there’s lots of easily available discussions of this online. But more generally, if this aggressive sense of grievance at being ‘punished’ for being white and male comes from the school incident you think was mishandled, might a change of school help with a fresh start for his thinking?