Son and very right wing racist views

[Strawberry33]

My son 14 has been extremely influenced during the past year by stuff in the media that he now calls lefty propaganda and some unfortunate experiences. He now has decided to completely shun our families values and wants to become a right wing politician. He’s very bright but been debating with teachers and pupils today in his online learning and I’m worried he’s going to be punished and silenced which seems to only feed into his views.
Just to add he’s not at all violent, aggressive or nasty towards people of any group. If he was I’d definitely get police involved or counter extremism involvement.
I just want to shape his views but he just digs his heels in more and more! X

at comparing reading the Guardian with being a racist.

@Shudawuda

“Black people aren’t British” is racist. The comments around immigration are uninformed.

But the rest isn’t racist and some of it is valid.

What the absolute adherence to “white privilege” and “BLM” is doing is creating a quite rightly dispossessed generation of young white men. And this obsession will lead us to either far left fascism or far right nazis. Both terrify me equally.

My children and ex have had more racist abuse since all this woke shit started than ever. Stop it. Just stop we were steadily getting more inclusive and now we are dragging things back rapidly.

stop trying to force your views into your boy. Have you thought in a mainly black school during this time he actually feels under attack and not particularly happy and included? How about you actually listen to him and validate some of his points? Debate the “whys”? Otherwise you are just saying he’s wrong to be right and you’re right to be left.

I'm so sorry your children and their Dad are being racially abused @Shudawuda.

The rest of your post is excellent.

So it sounds as if your son has fallen foul of believing ethno-linguistic groups are the same thing as modern citizenship. During the 19th century the root of modern nations came from this view, and essentially separated geo politics from feudalism, but since WWII it has become quite rightly accepted that nations surpass their ethnic roots and that we can have multi ethnic societies. This is not the same as multi culturalism, where communities exist in parallel but not really interacting with each other, and centre right commentators such as Douglas Murray make what I think are far more reasonable arguments, and should hopefully show your son it is not some 'lefty' conspiracy that black Britons are British.

My son who's a few years older has been similarly radicalised. I blame too much time on YouTube. And Jordan Peterson seems to be a stepping stone. He will have mentioned Peterson if that's hooked him. In my son's case views includes an insidious sexism as well. It's very wearing. We discussed a lot for a while, getting nowhere. Like OP we've always been a family that discusses and debates everything. It was like he'd been brainwashed and there was no getting through. He wants to talk about this stuff a lot, so convinced it's right. Like a cult! And my son is highly educated... So any advice from others on this thread would be welcome here too. For now, we just treat him like you do an old racist uncle. Change the subject and move on. Hope he will grow out if it.... It's very sad though, those are not the values he was brought up with, not at all. I'd be horrified if my daughters ended up with someone with those views to be honest.

From what you are saying, he doesn't sound extreme right or racist.

@Staffy1

From what you are saying, he doesn't sound extreme right or racist.

What do you define as extreme right or racist?

His views are racist.

@Strawberry33

Alexashutup- well when I say he’s expressing views I’m not saying he’s targeting people or upsetting people but he’s airing them to me in the course of our discussions such as at home in reference to news stories on immigration ect and political debate. Or in history lessons (he’s obsessed with history and I suspect he’s ASD somewhere on the spectrum) he says things like that other races were enslaved too. He’s not incorrect on that but doesn’t seem to understand the nuances. The reason I don’t want to get anyone outside involved at this stage is because he believes he’s being silenced for being white and male. The more I try to change his view the more he thinks he is correct. I also don’t want him to shut me out from talking to me as then who knows who he will talk to instead? At least at the moment I know exactly what’s going through his head. Hope that makes sense x

Until he grows up, starts working and then starts to discriminate against other races in the workplace. This is exactly how racism in society starts. You have a responsibility to help him nip this in the bud and not everything is down to ASD or special needs. He has been radicalised and is gradually becoming a member of society that will grow up to oppress others

@inquietant, no they aren't, apart from "black people aren't British", which I missed.

@sessell if your son has been radicalised to the far right, then Peterson wont have been the culprit. Having watched many lectures and read his academic work, he did lots of work examining how people become radicalised and acted in Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union, and committing atrocities. If he were actually a Nazi, I find it impossible to believe he would have had such a career in academia. Its like saying that reading the Guardian is responsible for someone becoming a Nazi.

He has been radicalised and is gradually becoming a member of society that will grow up to oppress others or he will be shunned and find life harder. If his views were known in my workplace he would not be welcome at all. His opportunities will be much smaller and his life shitter.

When you look at those who hold these views - they are not exactly role models for happy, fulfilled lives. Bitter, angry, frustrated usually. And often pretty boring.

[quote Staffy1]@inquietant, no they aren't, apart from "black people aren't British", which I missed.[/quote]
Well that is the one I meant - as I said, he does hold racist views.

@inquietant

He has been radicalised and is gradually becoming a member of society that will grow up to oppress others or he will be shunned and find life harder. If his views were known in my workplace he would not be welcome at all. His opportunities will be much smaller and his life shitter.

When you look at those who hold these views - they are not exactly role models for happy, fulfilled lives. Bitter, angry, frustrated usually. And often pretty boring.

 or he will continue to think and analyse and learn where he's going wrong and perhaps swing right back but possibly may end up with slightly further right views then his Mum and MNetters might like him to have. These predictions of doom and gloom are ridiculous.

@PlanDeRaccordement gives great advice. Education and knowledge is key.

@HmmSureJan if it was my kid I would be nervous about just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best though. Pretty crap for the child if he doesn't 'swing back'.

[quote inquietant]@HmmSureJan if it was my kid I would be nervous about just crossing my fingers and hoping for the best though. Pretty crap for the child if he doesn't 'swing back'.[/quote]
Good thing I said the complete opposite of advising crossed fingers etc then isn't it? You know that bit where I said @PlanDeRaccordement gave great advice and that education and knowledge were key? I fear the heavy handed, shaming approach you appear to think warranted would have a far worse outcome tbh.

Where have I suggested any shaming? The only thing I said was I would speak to school for advice.

My concern is people here thinking someone with these views won't be affected - his future life could be massively affected.

@inquietant

He has been radicalised and is gradually becoming a member of society that will grow up to oppress others or he will be shunned and find life harder. If his views were known in my workplace he would not be welcome at all. His opportunities will be much smaller and his life shitter.

When you look at those who hold these views - they are not exactly role models for happy, fulfilled lives. Bitter, angry, frustrated usually. And often pretty boring.

Here. Where you suggest a ruined life where he is despised and shunned by all. He's a teenager, who you appear to have written off entirely.

While I don’t know if you need to go the full route of reporting radicalization based on any of this (!), I do think you’re fighting an uphill battle if you do this alone as his mum.

I think you need to call in reinforcements from friends who can become mentors.

1. most of the work should be done by a white male friend or relative who is a strong “ally” to minority ethnic groups and women. He needs to build a trusting relationship showing how a white man still can be highly successful in our society thank-you-very-much (ie virtually everyone in positions of power!) while also holding inclusive views. And this person needs to be open to really listening to your DS, even when it’s uncomfortable to do so.

2. examine DS’s friendship circles and your own: are they representative of the diversity in our society? I think a lot of learning about inclusion and valuing diversity can happen just through hanging out (in person or virtually) as humans with people who are a bit different from our families.

@student133 I didn't say Peterson was a Nazi. I said he's a gateway. Believe me I have watched many of his videos too, and they are full of dogwhistles. It is subtle but insidious. And then YouTube suggests the next video which moves you up a level to someone more overt...

Shudawuda- not sure why you are attacking me seeing as we are on the same side. I actually do listen to my son and calmly talk to him openly. I validate some of his reasonable arguments. I am really not keen on your tone at all. Definitely unwarranted if you’d actually read all my posts .

@HmmSureJan I think there's a possibility he grows up.like the people I know who held similar views in school, I was pointing out there are serious risks to himself, not just a risk he may oppress others.

I accept he could sort himself out, but also there's a risk he doesn't.

I haven't written anyone off (FFS I don't actually know him) but these are my views about how seriously being of this mindset can limit a life, having known a fair few people go down this route.

@strawberry33 I have also read that other races held the British as slaves too. If he is bright maybe he has been reading around and found information he feels contradicts some things left wingers claim. A lot of prople are right wing and as a young adult he must choose his own political views however if he makes racists comments he will find he gets into trouble. My son had a few run ins with his form tutor because he agreed with Brexit. I thought he maybe just wanted to best his form teacher who he claims is very political, by trying to find evidence against points form tutor made. He was not alone in this. I sometimes wonder if it was in response to having a very left wing form tutor. In school they had a Brexit debate and I was really suprised that some of the cleverest children in his year group and several from his class, wanted to argue in favour of Brexit. I had expected that young people would be more in favour of Remain. He also follows a Guedo Faulks/Fawkes ( not sure of spelling but I have over heard him discussing this with male friends) on twitter and Tom somebody who seems very right wing to me. However my son knows better than to make racist comments and I have never heard him do so. It does seem to be boys though not girls. I just think maybe he will grow out of it. I encourage him to read the Guardian as well as the Independent and whatever else he reads. He reads a lot of newspapers, reads a lot in general.

OP, at 14 I was very politically extreme. I went the opposite way, very interested in communism and supported violent opposition. I used to argue that the end justified the means blah blah blah. It makes me cringe now

25 years on I'm just your average labour voter
I everything is more intense when you're that age. Plus the invincibility and always being right of youth.
He'll calm down and grow out of it, although you might be left with a tory voter lol

How ridiculous that people are suggesting you report him etc. He totally should be allowed to have "right wing" views. Tories were voted in as was Brexit. It's not like some small group of people believing in aliens!! Its a majority.

I disagree with his racist views, and on that he should be challenged. However, I totally get where he says he feels oppressed. Since the BLM movement, my children have been made to feel somewhat responsible and as if they themselves should be ashamed. And don't get me started on the number of times they've been told they are white privileged. Its caused a huge divide at their school now, and wrong to make children feel ashamed of being white.

I think 'right wing' and 'racist' need to be viewed separately.

How the FUCK can anyone say that the statement 'black people aren't British' isn't racist? Not only racist, but fucking stupid too lol.