14 year old daughter having sex with boyfriend- eek!!

[lincolnshirelassy]

Over the weekend found condoms in my 14 year old daughter's bag, she has a boyfriend who she has been with a year, he's 16, there's 18 months between them. Asked daughter about it and she admitted she'd had sex with him, she had been afraid to approach me, I have talked to her all along about contraception, emotional side of sex etc but foolishly didn't think they were at that stage yet! Talking at length with her it seems they are sensible and had made a considered decision. She had been planning on going to the local clinic to see about the pill, I offered to go with her, she said her boyfriend had offered to go but she thinks she would like me to come.

I'm obviously not overjoyed about the whole situation, especially as I set boundaries in our house, they're not allowed upstairs with the door closed, I pop my head in every half an hour etc etc, and I'd spoken to her boyfriend's dad as he is a friend of the family and asked him to set similar rules but I just think he is pretty lax about it. I know I can't stop it but I don't want to be her enabler either! Should I get her on the pill? Should I ban visits to her boyfriend's house or would that just make them be more sneaky about it? He's a nice lad and seems to respect her, I don't think there was any pressure there but I hate them slavering all over them in my presence at have pulled them up on it a few times. I suppose what I'm saying is how do I set rules whilst still being approachable if she needs to talk to me? She's a good kid, we have no problems with school, doesn't drink or smoke like a lot of her friends do and overall is pretty mature and sensible, but still ,she's only 14....

OK. This just rolls and rolls with the same comments so just to be clear this is what I HAVE done:

1. Spoken to her at length about legalities, contraception, emotional issues. Made it clear that I don't condone, won't facilitate and that I think she is too young and I wish she would rethink. Asked repeatedly if there was any pressure. Encouraged her to remember her goals, activities and friends and to try and place the Bf lower down her priorities list BUT....

2.....if she is going to continue she has to be safe. Hence she has been to the clinic, had a consultation, had an implant and always using condoms has been repeated ad infinitum 3.Rules are in place as follows. She doesn't go to Bf's house without supervision, and seeing as dad is lax I am actually not letting her go there at all. No closed doors in our house and I poke my head in frequently (she shares a room with younger dd so that limits opportunity). Bf is allowed to visit here or they are allowed anywhere she would go with other friends - shops, cinema etc. No overnight stays under any circumstances.

1. I am still talking to her every single day about it. I am limiting opportunities at every turn but they may still find a way so not putting her on contraception would be daft.
2. I have spoken to the dad several times but I don't trust him for various reasons. Hence she's not allowed there anymore and Bf must come here.

Fire away then. What else could/should I be doing?

Oh and the Bf has been told all the above too!

Now, IMO you should not talk much about her bf so you take any enjoyment of the 'drama' out of it. IME most teenage girls love a bit of drama - I don't mean shouting/ultimatums/dramatic gestures just an ongoing 'story' to be dwelt on and used as a distraction. Eg, I wonder what mum will say/do about this today. She's so x,y,z. It's so unfair. I must tell my friends etc. Nobody understands bf and me etc etc.

So you take the heat out of it now as far as possible.

It sounds like you've done brilliantly.

FWIW - I'm sure that growing up in a "culture" of prioritising education and (healthy/constructive) hobbies/good work ethic does make it less likely that teenagers will have underage sex. And I'm a great believer in keeping teens very busy to keep them out of mischief, but it's not a guarantee that they will lead the lifestyle we think is optimum for their well-being. And with some teenagers the best way for us to steer them into making good choices is probably not to try to instil our values into them, but to appear to be very non-judgmental and unconditionally loving in the hope that they have enough self-esteem to make good choices for themselves. Some teenagers will knowingly make poor choices for the sake of make of their own choice. That's rebelling and becoming independent after all. Many an adult has consciously rejected at least some of their parents dearly held values.

I second the poster who said that you know your DD best.

rogue yes she definitely loves a drama, so I think the not talking about Bf too much is a good idea. The ' no one understands me and bf'...oh yes! She's the first 14 year old to have been madly in love and hormonal apparently so yes a plan of keeping her busy and not over focusing on it is a good one

Nequid:
For example, see the last post from math where she yet again raises questions and concerns that she would want answers to, as if this has never occurred to OP, and as if OP has not already discussed all of this with her child, and as if OP hasn't repeatedly said that she has.

The problem with 'repeatedly discussing' all I have mentioned with the DD is that teenage girls are frequently willing to paint themselves into a corner in order to not lose face by revealing what has really been going on. This is sadly especially likely to be the case if a teen really has been explicitly pressured or even coerced (date-raped), or if she has something she feels she needs to hide like sexting if that has been used against her.

In the face of repeated remarks on the topic of pressure she may not admit there was pressure, admit she may not have been fully on board with what the BF wanted, admit they didn't use condoms every single time, admit (if this is the case, and I strongly suspect it is) that the sexual relationship has been going on since she was 13, etc. She was reluctant to go to her mother about this to begin with and as with virtually everybody else I have ever known who has been caught red handed, so to speak, I suspect a plausible and reassuring explanation was given -- consistent condom use, relatively brief duration of sexual relationship, intention to go and sort out the Pill.

Plus you have the problem that in the eyes of a young teen 'pressure' to have sex can frequently be misinterpreted as Luv. A young teenager does not have enough life experience to understand what pressure is. Pressure along the lines of 'but I love you and you say you love me' or 'if you really loved me as much as I love you you would have sex' or 'why are you so uptight - don't you believe/love/trust me?' isn't always easy for a young teen to decipher or see as pressure. A young teen might confuse pressure as outright coercion. A young teen might confuse consent on the first occasion with being swept away, the BF moving very fast and her lack of saying No way as consent. Or she might explain away the BF going further than she had consented as evidence of extreme passion for her on his part, and inability to stop himself because she was so irresistible. Plus a young teen might be very susceptible to the physical attentions of a BF who is always all over her, or constantly sending texts (don't know if phones have been checked). There is pressure there, some breaking down of reluctance that may well be consensual or enjoyable but the next obvious step is not necessarily a sexual relationship when you are 14 (or perhaps 13).

Rogue:
'with some teenagers the best way for us to steer them into making good choices is probably not to try to [ ] instil our values into them, but to appear to be very non-judgmental and unconditionally loving in the hope that they have enough self-esteem to make good choices for themselves. Some teenagers will knowingly make poor choices for the sake of make of their own choice. That's rebelling and becoming independent after all. Many an adult has consciously rejected at least some of their parents dearly held values.'

The only quibble I have with that is I would insert the word 'explicitly' or 'repeatedly' in the [space]. I would also be inclined to substitute 'self respect' for 'self esteem.'
Any 'discussion' has to be extremely subtle or you get into the demand-->withdraw dynamic and the risk of rebellion.

Lincoln, you do know your DD best, but you also seem to know the BF pretty well, and so I would like to know more about his family -- so far the picture you have painted has been pretty bleak, but I am wondering about details of the poor relationship he has with his father: what exactly makes it a poor relationship? Has he seen a healthy model of how relationships work in the relationship of his father and step mother? Has there ever been abuse of any kind in the home? What exactly is meant by 'not being in a place where he can parent' in relation to the father, and how long has he been incapable of being an effective parent?

Would you say your DD may be aware of any problems in the BF's home life, and would you suspect that she is in any way or on any level trying to make things better for him -- meeting the needs of others, as Duplodon mentioned? Would you suspect that the BF has flattered her that she can deliver some much needed feeling of being loved by having sex with him? Has she been cast in the role of healer here?

Being non-judgmental would by its nature be non-explicit. And it would implicitly convey the fact of our wanting our DC to be happy and figure out what is important to them. It demonstrates that we love them for who they are rather than what they do. It affords them a lot of respect; which will help our DC to respect themselves. What could be more empowering than a loving parent who will support us in our choices because we are important enough to deserve to have our choices respected. A parent who has our best interests at heart.

One of the implicit messages is 'Mum trusts me therefore that must make me a capable person'. Excellent for the cultivation of self-respect and confidence to withstand pressure to make poor choices.

Jesus math give it a rest will you. You're practically stalking the OP and making huge assumptions based on very little. There is nothing supportive about any of your posts, just a borderline pathological determination to 'win'.
lincoln I wish to God I'd been able to talk to my mum like your DD can talk to you. I've no doubt that there are some young people who become sexually active at a young age because of underlying issues, your DD doesn't sound like one of them. If your DD is 15 in 3 months, there are many European countries where the age of consent is 15 or 14.
I was coerced into having sex with my BF when I was 14 and would have loved to have been able to go to her for support. I think pragmatism is the way to go in these situations. I used to work in drugs and alcohol and they use a model caused harm minimisation which means that they offer all the support to help the user abstain from drugs but, if they're not in a place to do that yet, they are offered advice about eg needle exchanges or smoking weed rather than skunk. That's exactly what you're doing - giving her reasons why you'd rather she wait but making sure she's safe if she continues to have sex.
I think you sound like a great mum.

math just leave it now. Stop hounding the OP and let this thread die

and so I would like to know more about his family

Would you really, Math. You know it's none of your damn business, yes? And while the OP might want to talk to a friend or someone about the BF (although I doubt she'd need or want to), why on earth would she tell you? So you can continue on your crusade to belittle and rubbish her parenting skills, tell us all how it would NEVER happen to you, and insist repeatedly, despite being told otherwise, that the DD has been coerced into sex when she was 13 by a 15yo evil paedophile predator boy?

You are disturbingly desperate to enforce your own narrative onto a situation you know heehaw about. The OP doesn't want to hear it, because you're wrong. Your assumptions about their family have been wrong, your assumptions about her DD's intelligence have been wrong, their "family culture" were wrong, her DD's sporting achievements, extra-curricular activities, life plans; all wrong (in fact, OP's family sounds pretty similar to your perfect family). So there is no value to your spiteful, unwanted put-downs poorly disguised as advice to the OP. Just leave her alone.

It's poor form and unfair to talk about posters previous history so I won' t go into it but honestly math, you're like a dog with a bone on these subjects.

You've made many contributions on this thread that everyone including the OP has read. You're not really interested in anything the OP has to say or about the BFs family nor do you want to be supportive. You just want to repetitively make YOUR views known.

And several people have pointed this out. I know this is an open internet forum when no-one can (or should) dictate how someone else is involved. But I think it shows a shocking lack of self awareness as to why you keep coming back and hammering away.

We all understand your point of view. It has been listened to and taken on board. It just might not be agreed with. And in life, that's ok to accept that with good grace. It's not a failure if people haven't come round to your way of thinking. It's a polite difference of opinion.

Amorak and aint I agree with every word you've said. This thread has made me feel really uncomfortable. I normally hate it when posters suddenly become armchair Psychologists/psychiatrists but math, seeing as that's what you've been doing throughout this whole thread, I'm going to turn the tables and do it to you: From an objective(ish) outsider's point of view, you are massively over-invested in this thread. You keep posting theories about what is going on and, when OP comes back and tells you that you're wrong, you simply will not give up - You are determined to prove that OP's DD has been having sex since she was 13, that it is not consensual and that both DD and her BF have huge emotional issues that have led to them having sex despite everything OP says to the contrary. I don't believe that anything the OP says will persuade you that you have got this wrong. As a psychologist, you are obviously aware of projection and transference. I think you need to hide this thread and spend some time thinking why you simply cannot leave it alone.

Andy is being very nice and polite - but I don't agree with everything math said. And I haven't on previous threads she has been involved in (I have NC several times).

But I agree with everything you said Andy. And I think many people on this thread do.

Hallelujah!!

I have reported math on this thread for her constant bullish attitude towards the OP and I will report her again as it is going way beyond "just words on a screen".

You need to back off math and also maybe take a look at yourself as your stalker like behaviour and refusal to accept the OP is not interested in your constant ramblings are rather worrying.

Maybe those of you who feel so irritated would like to hide the thread?

None of this is anyone's business really, but it seems we have all come across it on a public forum, which is ironic.

'(in fact, OP's family sounds pretty similar to your perfect family)'
Do you know how many times I have said that on this thread?
That is partly why I am interested in the family background of this boy and why I am asking questions about pressure he may have put on the DD (or manipulation to use another term), relationship models he may have has he witnessed abuse, etc, and exactly what constitutes a poor relationship with his father neglect? abuse? The father has a drinking problem and may be depressed, and I am curious as to how much this may have affected him.

Maybe those of you who feel so irritated would like to hide the thread?

Why should we hide an entire thread just because of you. I have enjoyed reading everyone else's posts and found the different pov interesting.

Should the OP hide her own thread too

Good questions there math. It's a good job OP has already found out the answers to them, to her satisfaction if not yours.

The OP has used the terms coercion and pressure interchangeably. They are not really the same things. One is easier to spot than the other when someone is 14.

'Not in a place where he can parent' is pretty vague, as is 'extremely poor relationship' and also 'though [stbxw] and bf's Dad are NOT on good terms', and it might be helpful to expand on those phrases. The home is dysfunctional enough that the OP is leaning towards not allowing her DD to go there just because of that alone. Yet the idea that the BF's home life has not affected his conduct in the relationship seems not to have been entertained.

Some teen girls are susceptible to flattery that they are 'needed' to make someone's life worth living, that they are the only one who cares, loves, in whom the boy can confide, etc. They are not fools -- just genuinely nice and caring human beings who get taken advantage of.

math I do think you should know when to stop. However I do think your last paragraph is insightful and it is something I have considered and will be keeping a close eye on, but whilst Dd is still absolutely insisting she is acting out of free will I don't really see what I can do above and beyond what I am already doing.

OK, things have taken a turn this week which I'm not happy about, Bf encouraged dd to lie about where they were going so she could spend the whole day at his house alone. I rumbled it and tbf she admitted it straight away. It seems not only did the Bf 's father know about this but he actually encouraged it!!! I'm furious and don't know what to do. Have sent message below to the father. Opinions???

'I need to ask once again that everyone sticks to my rules. I am unimpressed with both of them this week and particularly angry and shocked that firstly, (Bf's name) messaged me to try to change my mind when I had said I would like him to come here rather than her coming to (name of town) and secondly, when I refused to engage, told me I was selfish. He, with your knowledge, then went on to make arrangements with (dd's name) which involved her lying to me about where she was going. For a start, I expect a bit of respect from my children - and that includes friends and boy/girlfriends who come to the house and so includes (Bf's name). I don't expect them to think they can negotiate with me, insult me, or encourage ignoring rules I have laid down. If (Bf's name) feelings for (dd's name) are as genuine as he says I'd expect him to treat her family with respect and not go behind our backs, especially as we have essentially encouraged him to be part of our family. I appreciate your set up is different and a bit more laissez-faire, but for one, you're not parenting girls, which is completely different to boys, and secondly whilst (Bf's name) is 16, I have to make the point (once again!!!) that (dd's name)is only 14 and still very much a child, way way under the age of consent, which puts both of them in a very vulnerable position. It's my job to protect her, and if I find she's being encouraged to sneak around or lie to me, I'll do what's necessary to keep her safe. If (Bf's name) really loves her his focus shouldn't be on encouraging her to lie to her parents so he can have sex with her, but on respecting all of us. They went to the clinic with my blessing in case they found themselves in a situation where it happened. I made it very clear to them both that I wished they would wait, that I didn't condone and certainly wouldn't facilitate, but that I wanted them to be protected just in case. Flying in the face of this by trying to find ways to pull the wool over my eyes is quite frankly taking the piss.'

What else can I do? I feel sick with worry.

I would send a briefer message outlining the salient points and visit bf's father to hammer those points home with particular reference to the legalities of the matter.

Then I would remind dd and bf that you are currently being supportive but that this will continue only while they are adhering to your rules and being respectful.

And continue everything you are doing - keeping her busy, minimising bf's importance in her life and keeping the lines of communication open.

My guess is that, since you have been accepting to this point, they are just testing how much more you would be willing to accept. Draw your line in the sand now.

The way bf spoke to you is shocking. This is at odds with your previous description of him, and his card would now be marked in my house.

nequid card definitely marked. It is at odds with how he has behaved in the past, which is worrying as it suggests to me he can be manipulative and spits out his dummy when he doesn't get his own way. I am trying to keep him where I have my eye on him though.

Erm. She's 14. You can and should stop this happening imo.

If it were me, I'd be moving hell and high water to ensure she wasn't having sex. Dear god. What happens if she gets pregnant or gets herpes?! I'd be reporting bf (and his family!) to the police. But that's just me probably.

I haven't read the whole thread. The whole idea just depresses me in general I'm afraid.

Very good advice from nequid IMO.

I sympathise with your difficult situation. Unfortunately some adults don't mind undermining the wishes of other parents in order to keep their own DC happy.

blazing just quickly as you haven't read the whole thread she has an implant. The legalities have been gone over many many times and she insists she has not been pressured. And yes I am moving hell and high water to ensure she doesn't have sex

Respect you, he's shagging your daughter who is 14. I think that shows he does not respect you at all.

You need to pull the plug fast, or your gonna be a grandma real soon.