Feeling down - son arrested for burglary

[flow4]

That's about it, really. The police came and arrested him earlier this evening, and brought him back about an hour ago. 4 CID officers, two of whom charged up the stairs to his room without even stopping to say hello. I can't really even begin to describe how surreal it is: I'm a boring respectable middle-aged professional woman, and I simply can't get my head round having a son who has been arrested for burglary. :(

He even told me about the incident, but - and I know this sounds incredible - it just didn't cross my mind that it was burglary. He snuck into the house of a girl he used to be close friends with, when he was drunk/stoned, and stole her phone, then woke up the next morning and couldn't work out how to get it back to her, so kept it... Until her boyfriend heard about it and kicked the sh*t out of him and got it back. He was quite badly beaten, so obviously I asked questions - which is when I found out. But I didn't think of it as burglary - which it obviously is, now the police have pointed it out. I feel stupid.

I also feel like a terrible failure as a parent. He's largely beyond my control - certainly in practical terms - and if he's turning into a f*cking burglar, then I'm probably losing the moral 'battle' too :(

I'm disgusted with him to be honest. Which is upsetting. And I'm suffering from that exhausting yo-yo-ing of emotions: he's been reasonably pleasant and helpful recently - but every time I hope he's growing up/getting better, there's some other bit of sh*it behaviour...

He has been incredibly lucky. He has had an official reprimand, but isn't going to court. I have very mixed feelings about this: I know a criminal record is something to avoid, but a lecture and a bit of paper seems a bit of a lame response. I'd really like someone to put a rocket up his arse He needs to sort himself out, and I think we're past the point where I can help him very much: he's 17 - he needs to do it himself. I've told him that if he brings the police into my life again, I'll throw him out.

All in all a miserable evening :(

flow I am so sorry for you. I had various similar stuff with ds 1 mostly connected with drugs. He is now 27 and leads a somewhat bohemien lifestyle. I too have 2 other fab ds and 2 small dd's I was a psychiatric nurse and did my best. Unfortunately he too had a very absent father and saw some dv when he was very little. Same for ds 2 though and he is fine.
We were stolen from,raided,threatened by a local family on xmas eve saying they were going to petrol bomb our house. I paid off local dealers and went into crack houses when pg with dd1. I remember laying in bed night after night racked with worry or guilt. Stil now I wonder if he will lose his flat or bring more trouble.
I had to kick him out at 17 when I had nothing left. I stayed in touch and helped him with housing etc but he had to leave.
I have him back now and then to help out but it always goes tits up. Most recently we helped him as he joimed the army (lasted a few weeks) I said no weed or internet poker. He did both then screamed at me that he hadnt even though I had the evidence in my hand.
Thats no help I know but like others on here I just want you to know its not just you. xx

Btw you asked for a good police story. My dh is a copper and has been here before when his colleagues have "called" hows that

Also you are right.Even though they appear to sometimes not be involved when you think they are. It is the company they keep which brings this shit to your door.

If you lay down with dogs you get up with fleas.

Oh ledkr! That all sounds v familiar. I'm not quite there with DS1, but nearly. I have also stood there with the end of a spliff in my hand, found in the kitchen sink under all the dirty pots, saying "You have been smoking while I have been at work", and he has shrieked "I haven't, you always think badly of me!"

I do still think, just, that the biggest problem is the company he's keeping. But I'm aware that at some point soon that excuse won't wash: he will be the bad company someone else is keeping - maybe he already is. Yesterday, as I was warning him away from certain people, I was v aware that simultaneously, elsewhere, other parents were probably warning their kids away from him :(

Flow I'm really sorry for you and just want to say you are not the only parent with a teen like this and it's nothing to do with absent fathers. Honestly it's not. My own son has a very loving and good father yet he behaves just badly as your son.

It's utterly heartbreaking to watch and as parents we are powerless to stop it.

((hugs)) and I dearly hope things improve. Very importantly please be kind to yourself.

Hi Flow. I just wanted to add my support too. I have no experience of this with my dcs but I do know it's not your fault.

My younger db went through similar. He left home at 15 and made my parents pay "rent" to a woman who was running a squat. Db told them that if they didn't he would just disappear.

He eventually came home and things were ok for a while. My parents went on holiday and db arranged for someone to steal my mum's brand new porche boxter. She'd only had it a month. We think all the money went on drugs and booze.

He's now 27 and living in London. He has a journalism degree and is working in PR. He's a really decent bloke.

Sorry, my point is that it WAS NOT my parents fault and it IS NOT yours. Hang in there. ((hugs))

Is anyone still awake? I am tying myself in knots here, so some independent opinions would be welcome...

Since we were burgled and there was a murder in our area on the same night 10 days ago, I have been locking the house up very carefully at night. Because the burglar seems to have had a key, I have not trusted my son to keep one overnight since. I have asked him to come home at a certain time, and until tonight he has.

He knows the son of one of the men arrested for the murder, and he was at a party with the two men who have been arrested for it, on the same night :( It is all too, too close for comfort. I am badly shaken by it all, I don't like the company he's keeping, and my trust in him is damaged. As well as this, in the past 3 weeks he has - been arrested and reprimanded for burglary; been arrested on suspicion of burglary on our own house; let a friend into the house even tho I told him no-one was allowed in (and it was the particular friend whose father is apparently a murderer); and (on Saturday) been involved in a nasty fight. I am simultaneously very fearful for him and very angry with him.

This evening he asked if he could stay at a friends and I said no, not tonight. He argued a bit, then came home at the time I'd asked him to come back.

But half an hour later, he climbed out the window :(

• I am angry and disappointed at the deception/breach of trust - again.
• I am angry and upset that he left the window open and the house vulnerable to burglars again.
• I am angry and gob-smacked that he is stupid enough to plan to climb back in through a window in the middle of the night, after two arrests for burglary.
• I do not know how much more stress I can take - I am constantly on edge, expecting him to be hurt and/or arrested and/or find himself in some other sort of trouble.

I have just done something I have never done before, and texted half a dozen of his friends. I said "If my DS is with u, pls tell him he has 5 mins to get home or I will throw him out. He has left my house open to be burgled again and he is a thoughtless selfish little boy who is happy to put his mum and little bro in danger again just so he can have a bit of fun". Not very mature level-headed or controlled, I know. But I am not feeling very level-headed or controlled.

How can I give him a key, after what has happened? But if I don't give him a key and he refuses to come home and/or climbs out of windows like this, isn't that more risky?

I did ask him to come in early (for a 17yo without a job or college to go to) - 10:30pm. But I have to get up in the mornings for work/getting DS2 to school. Should I let him come in when he likes at his age, even tho it disturbs me and I worry, especially given what has been happening? But there is no way to 'make' him stay in, as tonight has shown, so do I just have to tolerate the worry and sleeplessness?

I have locked him out now, because I do not want to leave anything unlocked and he doesn't have a key... But that is leaving him out of the house over-night, even tho' I felt/feel insecure enough that I earlier insisted on him coming in...

I am afraid for him if I throw him out, but I am afraid for my sanity if I don't.

I am exhausted after weeks of worry and can't make sensible decisions.

I am falling asleep as I write this, but I know I will be woken with a massive adrenaline rush when he tries to come home... Or I will wake worrying when he doesn't. :(

I don't know what I'm asking here really. We've been over this ground (or very similar) before, and people have kindly given me their views and advice. I suppose I'm checking in case someone can spot something so blindingly obvious that I've missed it...

Flow, I have been our inking on your post but not said much because I have nothing helpful to say or suggest. You come across as a really strong caring and intelligent woman who is being pushed beyond what any normal person can reasonably be expected to deal with. I know what the cycle of worry and sleep deprivation can do to you ( been up since 4.30, have given up on sleep).
Is there anyone that you can pack DS1 off to for a few days to give you a break and give him some space to think.

No, Brightspark. If there was, I would be much better able to cope I think. I have a few friends who would have him for me, but he won't consent to go, and I can't 'make' him. The last time I locked him out, I texted him to say "X and Y have said you can stay with them if you need a bed, here are their numbers", but he didn't contact either of them, and slept on a mate's sofa (the same mate who hosted the party where the two alleged murderers were arrested, in fact)... It isn't a recipe for relaxation.

I think the last time I had a 'night off' was last July, when I went camping for the weekend with DS2 and friends, and left DS1 home alone... But I trust him so much less this year, and am so worried for him, and our house and possessions, that I am not happy to do that again. I am also due to go away with a couple of my friends the weekend after next, but I have just said that I don't think I'll be able to come. :(

Not having anyone else is exactly why I struggle with this. If I lock him out, he doesn't get to think and reflect - he stays up all night partying and sleeps all day. If I throw him out, there is no-one else to 'catch' him - and he has given me soooo much evidence recently that he's not ready to cope on his own.

His line is that I worry too much, and I should just chill, and let him do what he likes, stay out til whenever. Maybe he's right: I can see from other posts that other parents are happy not to know where their DCs are at night. I would be a whole lot less worried if he hadn't given me so much to worry about.

I'm going round in circles again, aren't I? :(
Sorry things are still bad for you, Brightspark. Wish we had magic wands...

Morning Flow. I have an idea for you. I know there is a massive back story and I don't know it so feel free to tell me to butt out. For all I know you have tried this before but I just wanted to put it out there.

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place and so is your ds1. He wants to be treated as independent without being quite willing/able to grasp what that fully means. You need a break and some respite and I have a way you may get it without throwing ds out.

Sit him down and tell him you have a proposition for him. He wants to be able to come and go as he pleases and run his own life and you will let him do it for two weeks. He will treat your home as if he's a lodger. He can get up when he wants. Come in when he wants. He'll be in charge of feeding himself, doing his own washing etc.

However like a lodger he must treat the house and others in it with respect. He will contribute to cleaning it and will not bring back friends. He must also not get into any trouble at all and try to find a summer job.

If he breaks any of the rules the deal is off and he will play by your rules. If he doesn't agree to this then there will be no deal at all. In return for him doing well you will consider extending the arrangement or making it permanent. You won't nag him or remind him of anything in those two weeks as he has to do that himself.

The way it will give you a break is that you will think about him on a new way and you must force yourself to not nag about minor irritations.

God I'm sorry if it's a rubbish idea and I'm not sure it came across well. All I know is that ultimately when my ds1 was getting wild it brought him back to the family a bit.

As he is 17 isn't he still classed as a child? I'm sure that where I am they have residential units for troubled teenagers. I think they have their own rooms and encourage independant living and work.

Maybe give SS a ring and ask if they can help.

Gerard, 17 is an odd in-between age. Social Services (and the YOT and police on their behalf) have told me they would not house him, as they would have done if he was 14 or 15. They might possibly (if they judged him especially vulnerable) put him in a B&B. But he would have to go there willingly, and has told me he would stay with him mates instead. He certainly wouldn't hit the threshold for any residential unit - he doesn't qualify for any kind of support or intervention - he's just not 'bad' enough.

Talking things through with a friend this morning, I can see a lot of the conflict is rooted in a culture-clash. He is surrounded by other kids (mostly boys) who are doing the same things he is doing (and worse), and appear not to be getting grief from their mothers. There are lots of boys 14-20ish who come and go as they please, don't work, aren't in school/college at the mo, drink and smoke cannabis, get into minor trouble/petty lawbreaking, don't think at all about the impact of their action on others, and generally doss about in whoever's house is parent-free at that moment. There are about a dozen of them in our local area I'd guess - all living within half a mile of each other.

I find this whole culture anathema, and my son is angry with me and feels rejected because I don't "accept him as he is". He's right, I don't :( I keep hoping his true values and character will shine through... But I think that what is showing itself now really stinks.

TheOne, thanks for that idea. It is what I have been aiming for over the past few months (since Maryz said to someone "treat 'em like lodgers"!), but not so explicitly, and not with much success. I think I would find it hard-to-impossible to treat him like a lodger right at this moment (you have to give lodgers a key, don'tcha? ) but maybe in a few days...

... If I can get him to communicate with me... Another problem is that I have so much I want to talk to him about, and he doesn't want to hear any of it, so he avoids listening and talking to me at all at the moment. :(

Yes you would have to give him a key. :)

The idea for me was that either he would realise that you do a lot for him and he should give a bit back even if that just means no friends in the house or he will rise to the challenge, enjoy the responsibily and then you will have to worry less because he is behaving better.

I have also found that whenever I try to talk to ds he is immediately on the defensive. They don't like to be reminded where they are falling down because it amplifies a feeling of guilt that they are able to suppress if left alone. A lot of teens can become verbally aggressive because attack is the best form of defence. It's not personal for them.

To be honest, the amount I 'do' for him now has dropped dramatically over the past few months - partly because I stopped doing things that he wasn't appreciating, and partly because our days/lives are now so out of sync. I wake up at 7, am out of the house at work or busy most days, am home cooking tea etc. from about 5:30, rarely go out, go to bed about 10:30, and am usually asleep by midnight, though I am also sometimes awake for a couple of hours in the night. On the other hand, he gets up some time between noon and 4pm, goes out, only comes home for tea about twice a week, comes in as I am going to bed or after, and is awake 'til sometime between midnight and 4am. We probably only spend an hour or two a week in each other's company (tho it has been more the last week or two) - which makes me even sadder that the time is so stressful :(

I know, I know, it is obviously better that he goes out the door than creeps out of the window and leaves it open.

But the last time I trusted him with a key at night (11 days ago), he 'lost' it at a party that was attended by two alleged murderers (now in custody) as well as druggies and petty criminals - and we were burgled - and he was then arrested because the police suspected him of doing it himself. (The key is still inside the house, which has been boarded up as a scene of major crime). :(

The next time I trusted him with a key, during the day, he let someone into the house although he had been told, and had promised, not to. This someone has a history of petty theft and is the son of one of the alleged murderers. :(

That's a lot to get over, and I'm not, yet. :(

Not ideal but could you not go down and let him in if he texts you ..? Sounds like you are having another nightmare.

Did he not get charged for the burglaries would the police not give him a curfew.? As you know my son has been accused if burglary I am absoLutely loving him being in at ten every night, wish I had the power to make him get in at ten . Maybe if I did he would not be in the mess he is in now. Where does he get his money from to go out flow .?

He hasn't got a phone at the moment, Greenbed... All the kids who were at the party that the alleged murderers went to too have had to give their phones to the CID investigating team...

He was charged and reprimanded for the burglary, but that was it - no curfew. He wasn't charged for our burglary - there was no evidence he was connected in any way (and my instincts also still tell me he wasn't).

Maryz I think the talking does achieve something... Maybe not as much as I would like, but something... For instance, he has now apologised to me and said he hadn't thought about how upsetting leaving the window would be for me, and that he won't do it again, and he asked me what time I'd like him to be in tonight so I can get a good night's sleep.

I live in hope.

Which is of course sometimes the worst bit...

Good luck tonight. I can't think of a key solution right now but will have a think.

Right let's be positive, he apologised that's great. Hopefully he will Come in on time. Haven't you got an old phone he could use my son hasn't got his blackberry because the police have it he now has an old basic phone that he is embarrassed by but better than nothing.

I think at the moment bit like a toddler focus on his good points and ignore the bad I do know this easier said than done.

Is he going to college or looking for a job?

when my DD was being a handful and had a minor brush with the police I rang them to ask them what was going on and they wouldnt tell me anything as she was over 16 so I asked them if they knew of any support for parents at the end of their tether they said no, I said I had searched everywhere and couldnt find any help so they said try the youth offending service, when I rang them they said they had a part-time parental support worker, to cut a long story short she visited me for 1 hour a week and was brilliant she listened and gave me practical advice and it made the world of difference to me, if they have a worker locally to you, you are entitled to support because your DS has had contact with the police.

we did the leaving the key in a secret place outside too until trust was restored, though Im very scared to go on holiday next month for the first time without DD, my poor dad is going to come round once a day to check all is ok. I do agree with Greenbed about praising any positive bits to high heaven it does get better