My teenage son is out of control

Hi there. Reading your post reminded me of our eldest son and how difficult it is to parent such a troubled young man. Firstly, his behaviour is not your fault! I wonder if you know any of his friends and maybe their parents - I know it feels unlikely, but you are not alone.
Our son did not resort to the public things your son gets up to, but we had so much hassle at home, it made me feel like resorting to violence - but would I have stopped once I started? It did get to the point that we gave him the choice of staying and respecting us, our other children, and our home, or moving into a bedsit, which we paid for. He chose to leave, found a room in a shared house and we moved him in.
I had some contact with him, but his Dad didn't. He stopped attending college and was sacked from his part time job due to absenteeism.
BUT, he soon realised he was better off at home - the other residents were middle aged men, no jobs, on drugs and alcohol and they stole his food! I think he realised where he was headed if he continued to behave so badly. Within 4 months, he asked to come home and we decided together the rules he would need to abide by, and he came home the loveliest person in the world. He is 20 now, working full time in a bank, and planning a 'proper' move out to his own flat!
It's very difficult with number 1. When he was younger, was his behaviour 'allowed' while you waited for a diagnosis, and its just spiralled? I suppose the worry is that his siblings will see him 'getting away with it' and try to copy him. I know I sound harsh, but sometimes tough love is the way forward - the old saying ' if you love them let them go' is so true.
I hope this helps you to at least know you are not the only ones going through this tough time. I wish you all the best - keep smiling! xx

Is the sensory processing disorder largely an excuse for his bad behaviour?

I think as much as possible you need to let them take the consequences of their actions eg if he steals alcohol then the police are involved.

I think only yu and your partner will know when/if you get to the stage where you have to ask them to move out as HB did. IMO that was a very brave thing to do and in one act probably saved your son years of heartache/problems.

I don't think anyone is going to be able to suggest a magic wand type of idea but perhaps you can step back a bit and let him take the consequences as an adult. Encourage him to see these things as his problem not yours. Obviously you have to protect the younger sibs but apart from that I would try to let him make his own mistakes as much as possible.

You have my sympathy TH tis hell with teenagers.... but they do grow out of it eventually.

I could have written a lot of your post myself!! I can relate to the stress sadly only too well. Have had the stealing myself and have now decided its a new year and if it continues I will report him to the police. no advice really as I wouldnt be in the situation I am in but lots of sympathy. my son is 14 and if someone had told me all those years ago what it would be like I would not have believed them.

hope you get some much deserved help x

Hey, I could have written your post four years ago when ds1 was 14.

I will be back later to give you the benefit of my opinion (however useful that may or may not be ).

Just a couple of questions - where are you? Are you in the UK? What does the school say, have they threatened exclusion? Have you been in touch with the local juvenile offenders' officer (or whatever you call him where you are)?

Right he really is out of control, isn't he.

I can only tell you what has worked (very, very slowly for us). ds was diagnosed with Asperger's at 9, but really he could have been diagnosed with ADHD, ODD, or any combination of behavioural "disorders".

He went off the rails at 13. He did all your son has done and more, he was expelled permanently from school at just 15, and got very heavily into drugs.

We had a nightmare four years.

My advice would be to try to look at this outside the box. It is hard to get my suggestions across in a short message, but try to look at it this way. You are unlikely to change his behaviour (if punishment/reward was going to work it would have by now), so you have to improve everyone else's life.

I suspect the school will hang on to him until he is 16 and then ask him to leave (what is the leaving school age for Scotland?), so you need a plan to get him out of the house during the day. I don't know if you both work - I was a SAHM so got the brunt of ds's violence and bad behaviour, especially when he was no longer at school.

Have you enquired into youth training courses? It doesn't really matter what he does as long as he is out of the house.

Meanwhile, you have to look after you and any other children. The day I stopped fighting with ds was the day things started to improve for us. I just stopped. I didn't mention his time-keeping, his work, his clothes, his room. I carried on talking to and communicating with my younger children. I didn't react when he wanted a fight, I just replied politely if he spoke to me (rarely). I cooked him one meal a day (with the rest of the family) and made sure there was food for him to eat.

I went to family counselling with my husband - ds of course refused to go, but talking to someone made a massive difference to us.

I began to keep a diary - not just of all the awful things he did, but also of the odd good thing (the day he voluntarily switched the tv to dd's programme; the odd day he came in on time, that type of thing). I started trying to see the positive.

I locked up everything - I got a padlock on our room, and kept money, paperwork, ipods, the kids belongings, the car keys, everything locked away.

We had to deal with the awful psychotic behaviour and drug-induced violence - he suffered from depression and anxiety as a child, and discovered cannabis and vallium at the age of 12 . He moved on to various so-called legal highs and God knows what by 14, but is now back to (mostly) dope and occasional alcohol. We have had drug dealers calling to the house and threatening our younger kids.

We got a punch bag and gloves, and he has learned to get rid of anger that way (better than holes in walls and doors off hinges).

We did try SS but got nowhere - they offered at one stage to take ds2 into care (he was 10 at the time) to "keep him safe", but never offered anything for ds1 except for an adult homeless hostel, which ds would never have survived.

We have marked time. We have ignored as much as we can. We have held our heads high, protected our younger children, and are finally accepeting that it isn't our fault. That "what-ifs" and "should we/could we's" and blame and guilt are a waste of time.

And we (hopefully, touch wood) seem to be coming out the other end.

ds1 is 18 now, and on Christmas day bought us presents, with money he earned. He started a conversation with me yesterday for the first time in, I'd say, five years.

It has been horrible. But sometimes these kids are emotionally so far behind they are toddlers in teenage bodies. He is probably as angry with himself as you are with him.

I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for him too. Interestingly enough, my younger two have never blamed ds1 for all the awful things he does. Their attitude is that he can't help it, that it must be awful to be him, to be as unhappy as he is. I think their attitude is probably right.

I don't know if this is any help to you.

Just as an extra point - I remember the awful day ds was expelled from school. There were lots of tears (mostly from me), and at the end of the day when dh was coming to bed he turned to me and said "do you realise I will never again have to see the school name come up on a text message, or have to go in and see them again".

It was a very small light in the darkness. I too used to dread the phone calls, the texts, the endless being made guilty and apologising for things I hadn't done .

You do (sadly) sound as though you are very near where we were a couple of years ago.

A couple of things stand out - our younger children are well aware that we have different rules for ds1 and for them. And though occasionally my 13 year old will say "it's not fair, ds1 was drinking/partying/staying out all night/choosing the tv station/having his washing done when he was my age", the standard reply of "well would you really like to be him?" and a sympathetic "I know it's tough, but" really helps.

dh and I also did a lot of arguing. That's why I would highly, highly recommend family counselling. We started going two years ago (it was meant for ds, but of course he never went), just dh and me. And it really did help. Because before that I was insistent on making him obey rules, I felt that "giving in" would be bad, I felt we had to try. But the counsellor made me realise that I was just setting myself up to fail. I was destroying myself, my relationship, my family, because I was never, ever going to win. I was never going to regain control, or make ds behave, and the longer and harder I tried the more I would blame myself for the failure .

She made us talk about what we wanted for us as a family - not how to deal with ds, and although I thought at first it was a waste of time it has made so much difference.

The other thing is telling people - I have stopped hiding things. There are some people I don't tell (I think it's important, for example, that ds keeps his relationship with his grandparents, and I am now, at last, being rewarded for that decision - ds's relationship with them is strengthening again, and he will choose to see them and talk to them). But my friends, my younger children's parents, ds's friends parents that I have known since they were 4 - I have told them. Not emotional pouring out telling, but plain facts. And the telling has made things easier, not least because they were getting a garbled version from their kids.

We have very few rules - at one stage they were

1. No violence. Violence against people means I will call the police. violence against property (except in his room), means I will call the police.
   

When ds was 14 I remember saying to a very close friend that if I got ds1 to 16 without him killing himself or someone else I would feel I had succeeded.

His best friend killed himself when they were both 15. I thought ds would too, but he didn't (he just sank into drugs).

He is 18 now (with no criminal record - touch wood), and I keep getting glimpses of the child he once was. I have high hopes (but am careful about them being too high) for the future.

It has been worse than your worst nightmare, it really has. That is why I can see exactly where you are. I wish I had been able to talk to someone further down the line (but I wouldn't have believed them). And that is why I post on here - because there is a conspiracy of silence among parents, who all spend their efforts hiding their issues, because we all blame ourselves (and to be honest, society blames us too).

I think kids with AS, ADHD, ODD, other issues, are honestly about 5 to 6 years behind in their emotional development. And if you can just sit tight and let his brain and emotions catch up with the rest of him, then maybe in five years you will be where I am. I don't know, I can only hope. 6 months ago, it was still pretty awful - I wouldn't have believed I would ever be where we are now.

But you need to be sane, together, and with your other children if/when it happens. You need to work on you - you can't change him. If you are anything like me you have spent the last ten years trying to change him, and failed horribly.

Try being nice to yourself, and thinking about yourself. You are worth more than just being the parent of a child who has gone off the rails.

If that makes sense.

Night .

Awesome posts, mary

< lump in throat >

I'm amazed you waded through them AF .

It makes forcing the girls to study look quite easy, doesn't it?

waded ?

I hang on every word...

MaryZed
Your post brought tears to my eyes. My 14yo son's behaviours are very similar to those that you describe. My son has, however, had a diagnosis of AS since he was 6yo (almost 7yo). I totally agree that it is almost as though he is emotionally about 6 years behind developmentally. My son, however, attends a specialist residential school but almost constantly asks us to move him to a mainstream school. My son's behaviours are pretty much limited to the home or environments where we accompany him - at school he is totally compliant and barely says a word - not at all forward.
From my perspective, I am caught between a rock and a hard place. Of course I would like my son to be at home - it kills me every time he is home for a weekend to drive him back. But on the other hand, I cannot risk him not attending school as we have, perhaps wrongly, always seen that an education for him can only be beneficial. School also focuses on emotional development as well as independence skills not just educational. He, however, just wants to be at home where there is no pressure and he can simply play his xbox all day (no point in confiscating as he will either become physically aggressive or trash the house). I am fully aware of the views that those with neuro-typical children will form. I also have another child (not autistic) and she has also suffered because of his behaviour. She has witnessed levels of aggression and unmentionable language. On good days she is very magnanimous towards him and 'gets' that it is his autism and anxieties that are responsible for his behaviour (sometimes we have contriteness) but on other days she is very hardnosed towards him and hates him.
Life is difficult - actually life is impossible. Unlike others who seem to have learned to embrace it, I'm ashamed to say that autism has ruined our lives. I can't even begin to imagine who my son is going to cope if he ever ventures out into the 'real' world especially with mass unemployment and the loss of benefits available. Of course he can always live with us. Despite everything he is mine and I love him dearly but it is easy to hate him sometimes. It is an emotional rollercoaster. Despite everything that goes on at home, one is also constantly fighting battles outside the home to have his future needs met (eduation, social services, CAMHS etc). We are in his transition year with his review due to take place in the next few months. It is a real watershed because, with cuts left right and centre, I am sure our LEA will be keen to remove his placement (although friends/school think this unlikely as they have no alternative to propose) and I would really want to suck mainstream and see (a sort of dual placement for a few months) to see how he would manage. Although my experience of mainstream for primary has left a very very bitter taste in my mouth.
We had a difficult evening yesterday but then I had a fantastic hour with him at about 1.30am this morning where he was lucid, engaging and even funny.
Oh well, today is another day. Each day I get up hoping it will be positive.
Long post and a bit off topic (sorry OP) but just wanted to basically let the OP know that there are other people out there who have very difficult children (not suggesting either of your son's have AS by the way) but wanted to say that it is not always the parenting as one or two of my family and friends seems to think.

Wow, LaydeeC, we are in a very similar situation (although DS-14 has Reactive Attachment Disorder rather than AS). I don't have time right now, but just wanted OP to know that yet another family is struggling with this extreme behaviour.

I have no personal experience of AS, or anything else on that spectrum (apart from professionally) but I think it a real shame that some of your family/friends do not understand

I certainly do not "blame the parents" in these cases, only ignornat and uneducated people do that, IMO

Hi there,

From what I have read, your son sounds very similar to the young people I work with so althpugh I can empathise, I don't have the experience of receiving this sort of behaviour from my own offspring. A lot of our students sound like your son, has he a statement of SEN for his sensory processing disorder? This should open the door for more provisions in his school, such as 1-1 support etc.

Have you tried your GP? They (or the school) may be able to refer your son to the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS) who can offer your son further support and with him help him develop his own strategies for managing his behaviour and identifying his triggers. Also, your local Connexions office may be able to offer support and help locate a supportive post-16 placement in education if that is what you would like.

HTH

Hang in there, LaydeeC, four years ago I really was struggling very, very badly. I would have jumped at a residential school for ds - we actually sent him boarding because he begged to go, but unfortunately it all went wrong.

When he came home, I had to send dd to boarding school to escape the violence, which was probably the lowest post. Luckily, she absolutely loves it, and refuses to come home even though things have settled down.

ds1 has physically attacked his siblings - I am sure that at some stage they will need help to overcome their disturbing childhood. They have seen things that no child should see (if ds had been my husband, I would have thrown him out and got a barring order years ago, but you can't do that to a 13/14 year old).

The one hope for these kids is that they do, eventually, grow up - at least most of them do. So just plod along day to day, make the best decisions you can at the time you are at. Don't waste time and emotional energy on guilt.

ds is 18 now, and beginning to catch up, I think. I worry a lot about the future, of course I do. But I try to put it to one side and enjoy the bits of my life that are good.

AF, my brother and sil (and dh's family) don't believe ds has Aspergers. They think his problems are due to me being over-controlling and hysterical. They think had I just "not put up with it", he would be fine .

Needless to say they don't like him in their house or with their children, unless supervised. Despite the fact that they know very little about the really awful things he has done.

That is awful

I understand their fear to a certain extent, but not their ignorance

I sympathise a bit now because of the drugs issue (they have teenagers). But when he was younger I would get loads of useless advice, but ne'er an offer to take him overnight.

It's the "there's nothing wrong with him apart from his attitude" and "why don't you just stop him from doing X, Y, or Z" that I find hard.

I mean, if there was nothing "wrong", he wouldn't have this attitude or do these things.

I don't for a minute believe that children are born "bad" (or if there are, there are very, very few), so imo there are few children who decide to be like this - it is generally the result of issues such as SN, mh disorders, sometimes adoption/disrupted childhood, sometimes abuse/neglect.

If the child has loving caring parents, a relatively stable home life and siblings who are well and happy, I think it is only fair to the parents to consider the fact that there may well be a deeper issue - ASD, ADHD, mental health issues, that type of thing.

Sorry, OP, this is all a bit off-track .

MaryZed, AF - thanks both for the supporting words. OP sorry for hijacking again.
One of the biggest issues I try to deal with is the 'what ifs'. He desperately wants to come home to go to mainstream, both school and I know he would sink without trace. But he is so earnest in his requests and promises the world. He just 'knows' he would go to school etc etc. I don't live in a parallel universe and I'm too scared to pull him from his current school as I will never get that level of provision again. On the other hand, what if he could manage in a mainstream and I'm doing him a huge disservice and stealing his childhood at home.
I do know that when he is at home, I can't get him to do anything that he doesn't want to do regardless of cajoling, bribes etc (hangs head). I just know that if he decided he wasn't going to go to school he would simply not go. I can't use the alternative of returning to res school as the mental pressure that would put him under would be immense and when he is under pressure kapow!
As you said MZ, if it was a grown up, the police would be called and I would have thrown them out a very long time ago. But he is my son, I love him and will keep going. He initially went to boarding school three years ago and that was probably my lowest point. Just prior to that, soc services told me that my dtr should probably move out (she was 8 ffs) as she was at risk (not from a grown up but from an 10yo (at the time because of how b/days fall). One of my very good friends agreed that she could stay with them (in reality it was only for about 4 weeks) but she still talks about it and crys. I really didn't think it could get any lower at that point. Whilst there have been some improvements, my son has not advanced in other areas. And of course there is less pressure on him at home now as we don't have to make him get up for school or do homework. But still weekends and holidays are hard enough. At least whilst he is at school my dtr has some 'normality' whatever that is.
I think your points about only having minimal rules but that these are non-negotiable are very valid. This is what we try to do. I try not to sweat the small stuff - like making him have a shower. This has even slipped to no longer having the 4 hour argument to go to bed as long as he promises to go by about 2am (and sometimes he stays up all night). I used to get very stressed about this (always worried about what other people would think) but, to be honest, he has simply never needed much sleep.
Anyway, we are due to leave to return to school in an hour and half and we have had two days of him incessantly telling me that he is not going. So the ante is already upped. Couple it with the emotional stress for me (however hard I try to hide it - I find it extremely difficult to take him back esp after holidays) even though he is absolutely fine and thrives whilst he is there.
So, many many apologies again to OP, I know that there is no suggestion that your son has autism but I wanted to acknowledge the kind words and to again let you know that you are not alone. I am a good enough parent, I am not perfect but my dtr is as happy as she could expect to be and I am still able to advocate for my son.
Hugs to all with difficult times at home. Who would have imagined when we held those little bundles and first fell in love with them.

Wow what an amazing thread! Such a desperate post from OP has generated such an inspirational response especially from MaryZed! I am so chuffed I clicked on this one as I have reached the end of my tether this week with my DS. I rang social services on Tuesday as I cannot cope with things anymore.

My DS is 15. Diagnosed ADHD and Autism, (my father had Aspergers). Thrown out of school last June. No GCSEs and not sitting any. Attending college now but attendence poor and likely to get thrown out unless changes attitude, have meeting with them next week, they seem to be much more supportive than school ever was.

Homelife: we are failry liberal, extremely loving and supportive. Have done EVERYTHING possible to help. Now realise you can only help someone who actually wants help. Have DS2 age4. DS1 comes home in small hours, helps self to food, goes to bed, maybe gets to sleep by 6-8am. Up around 12-2pm showers then goes out. Punches walls, mirrors, furniture, doors. Shouts a lot. threatens a lot. Rants a lot. Once the shower ran cold for a moment while he was in it and so he punched wall so hard picture fell off wall in next room. When injures hand punching, head butts things instead. Went through wardrobe and door last week. Never answers calls or texts. Rarely eats. Smashes mobile to bits about once a forntight.

Police: reported him missing numerous times. been in trouble for climbing onto shop roofs in town centre and trespassing. Has a reprimand.

Drugs. Cannabis everyday. speed. morphine. Mdma. Breaks my heart to tell you that. Has drugs counsellor who he actually seems to respect and talk to. She is trying to set up some family counselling sessions for us. Had to pay off dealer for a debt he had incurred. Never give DS more than £5 cash at a time only about 3 times a week that's it-for food at college.

My DH is away on business this week. I have been struggling big time as have had migraine due to stress. Called him for support, he told DS he is leaving us as he felt so helpless. DS hysterical in middle of night and woke DS2 up. Must say I had 2 cigarettes in a row at that point once settled DS2.

DH is not leaving us, he is back today...just an illustartion of how desperate we are all feeling. I rang SS as DS was refusing to live with us and just cannot cope with all of this anymore especially when get texts from him telling me next time I see him he will be dead. Not sure they will do anything unless I kick him out. I will never do that.

These are his decisions. Decisions have consequenes. He needs to know that. I have done everything I can, it's up to him now. I love him desperately and he will always have a home here if he choses to accept it. he needs to learn his own lessons his own way and I need to stop feeling responsible for his behaviour. (would help if I didn't have to act as a shock absorber and deflect all the shit the people who are supposed to be there to help us pile on to us) I really can relate to your comment about having to apologise for behaviour that isn't even yours.

I have nothing to be ashamed of. I love my son very much and the rest of my family and would do anything for any of them. People know that. Those who want to judge can get on with it, and feel smug that hey drew the long straw when I drew the short one. Fear breeds ignorant comments. Apparently if DH and I disciplined DS properly he would be fine. If it was as easy as confiscating his xbox we would never have got to this.

God sorry this is so long!

After DH announced he's leaving us and DS broke down uncontrollably, I managed to calm him down and got him to come and lie on the bed with me! I read him The Places You'll Go by Dr Suess used to be his favorite as a child...I was utterly amazed he listened to the whole story. Felt like a glimpse of a special moment...just goes to show how vulnerable he really feels beneath the hard exterior. Love that book, it's all about life and all it throws at you but very uplifting and inspiring and positive.

Yesterday, DS stayed off college to look after me! Hoovered, made cups of tea, came to collect brother from school, eat dinner with us and cam ehome by 10pm and went to bed. I am most proud of fact he told his dealer and all his friends he's given up drugs. Didn't have any all day!!!

It's a start. Bloody hope he sticks at it...probably a case of one step forward 2 steps back but its a start. I am so delighted to see a glimpse of the boy Iknow still in there somewhere. I just have to stay strong take a huge leap of faith and let him make his own life. My job as his Mum is to never stop loving him and to be there when he needs me to help him pick up the pieces.

This morning back to the ranting and threats and swearing. He did go to college though.

I now know I am not alone. I want to shake you all by the hand especially you MaryZEd. You have made my day more bearable today and for that I am very grateful indeed.