If anyone has access to or influence over Sarah Brown

[purplepeony]

please tell her to cover her knees.

(Sarah if you are lurking, please read.)

Yes, I know this is bitchy but I feel embarrassed for her; she does not have good legs and the dresses she has worn this week show too much knee, by at least 3 inches.

Who daren't tell her?

And her colours today- navy dress, black jacket(?) beige shoes and what looks like a white handbag.

I am avidly interested in the substance not just the style of politics, but please- these people have advisors and she was in PR- will someone please tell her?

not meant to imply gravitas, no, she's said that she uses the site so i don't see why i should think of another expression to use tbh.

she lurks but rarely posts, as do many people, and we know that. i don't think the 'she has more important things to do than mn' thing stands AT ALL, plenty of people mn while they're on trains or in the back of cars, and she'll be in there plenty at the moment.

btw i do believe in female solidarity.

I generally find that those who pick apart the appearance of others have a lack of confidence in their own.

I rather like to see men/women who fail to comply the social norm in their dress. It indicates their brain is being used for something important.

I generally find it means their brain isn't properly engaged with anything much.

Maybe she doesn't want a stylist? Why the hell shouldn't she just choose to wear what she wants?

Not so great knees are hardly massively offensive and who is really paying that much attention. She got slagged off for her toes/feet last week, seriously bitches, stop worrying about it. Go and have a pedicure to calm yourselves down

Come on - there is a direct correlation between the fact that there is a "Style war" going on in with the politician wives and no female leader. As boffin mum has obliquely pointed out.

We - women - are not window dressing.

Fine, if appearance is an add-on. But it's an instead-of.

I remember, years ago, an article we ran in a feminist magazine, about the politics of appearance. One very dry contributor wrote : "Watch out for the women, chaps; they'll bore you to death talking about their hair." I always bear that in mind when I think about politics and appearance. There's a limit.

And, you know, it is mean. mean girls organise power through less obvious routes - clothing, appearance, social networks - because direct access is denied them. Really, it's time we were after the main prize.

Oh rubbish. And . Ugly unkempt women try to disguise their own personal failure to maintain a decent appearance by taking shots at women who have the skills to maintain a decent standard of personal appearance....

Oh FFS.
'And, you know, it is mean. mean girls organise power through less obvious routes - clothing, appearance, social networks - because direct access is denied them.'

Talk about a conspiracy theory.

As for 'style wars', these are created by silly journalists.
As is most stuff probably.

Bonsoir - Who here is taking potshots at well-dressed women???

You are being deliberately provocative.

And implying that my analysis is motivated purely by an inability to locate a hairbrush.

Which is not so. For what it's worth, I do like people who dress well - and you will never, ever hear me argue that it implies lack of intelligence. Far from it.

I just object, strongly, to the way it is edging everything else out as regards women in this election -- and the impact that has on politics in general. It is really, really not good.

It's not an accident, it's orchestrated, and I really do think we should be ignoring it - on political grounds.

Oh well, I have zero confidence in frumps in the public eye - we will have to agree to differ there.

Whenever this debate comes up I think of Mo Mowlam. In her later years no one could have called her well-groomed or immaculately dressed. Partly because of her illness all that went out of the window. But she MADE it so that that didn't matter one jot, through the force of her good humour, wit, intellect and authority.

Women don't have to bow to this pressure - they just think they do and then they start judging each other on their appearance. I don't diss caring about your appearance, if you want to, and I'm not above fretting over my own fat knees. But we need to see that other things matter more and above all do not take a woman down over this.

I have never noticed her knees.

'As I said, we all have a duty to look our best.'

rubbish Moondog. We have a duty to be decent people. Looking good is nice but way down the list in order of priority of duties.

As for Bonsoir having zero confidence in frumps, that is probably the least intelligent thing I have ever heard the (usually very intelligent and sensible) Bonsoir say.
If you dress badly it just means you're not very good at dressing or think it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean you're bad at everything ffs. What about Elinor Goodman, former political editor on Channel 4 News? Terrible dresser, great political editor.

and btw Bonsoir, being ugly is not a personal failure . What a vicious, mean-spirited and fundamentally stupid thing to say.

brain not engaged with anything much? You can tell by the crumpled t-shirt, you know.

How odd, I was just about to ask bonsoir if she thinks Mary Beard lacks credibility, what with all that grey, straggly hair of hers

This thread is v depressing. I hope Sarah isn't reading it.

it was the best thing ever when Vogue listed MB as one of their top twenty inspirational women

Ah Bonsoir you continue to make me laugh

and people continue to rise to it ;)

Yes, I hope SB's not reading it. I'm with Aitch on that.

And it is a depressing thread.

It kind of symbolises, for me, so much of the really, really depressing stuff about this election in general.

Seriously, bonsoir, it's OK for you, elections in France have not gone this way yet. so for you, it's a bit of a laugh, and quite abstract. but just you wait ...

Quite honestly? I don't give a shit about anyone's knees. Not even mine.

She's not a fashion model or a body double. Therefore the condition or looks of her limbs are irrelevant, and if you care enough to start a post about it, I suggest you find another thing to think about.

excellent post animula

If the Charlotte thread was Mumsnet at its best..is this it at its worse?

How bloody mean.

Great post, Animula.

OP
You should be ashamed of yourself.

Why should we care that she has ugly knees (can't say I have noticed actually, I normally look at her face - she has a great smile) or has not had a pedicure?

It makes me despair tbh, this fishwifey commentary. Bad enough when the DM ridicules women for not looking their best, but when we women do it to others.

Fwiw, one of the most powerful women in Europe at the moment is not a fashion plate, and has never tried to be. She has become a lot more polished in the past couple of years since becoming Chancellor of Germany, but Angela Merkel is simply not interested in fashion.

I do think the 'wifes' are in a very tricksy position style-wise.

If they spend too much money/look very styled they get criticised but if they don't - they get criticised.

well I am with Bonsoir 100%.
All this solidarity stuff is nonsense.

I think there is a HUGE amount of hypocrisy here as ever...how often have you looked at anyone- be they in the public eye or not- and thought "bad dress for their shape" or " bum too big for those jeans"? never? come off it!

All this stuff about "being on a higher plain" and therefore not bothering with appearance is rubbish.

It comes down to either caring how you look- and possibly taking advice- or not.

yes you might think it but to express it is vile