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Am I the only one who thinks that black women and straight hair generally don't go well together?

194 replies

MrsThierryHenry · 25/07/2008 15:47

Yes, it's Friday afternoon idle timewasting chat time!

When I see a black woman (or man, for that matter) with straight hair, I just can't help thinking that 99% of the time some lovely curls would suit them SO much better. Compare this to this.

Now, okay, perhaps Beyonce's not the best example here, as she would look amazing even with no hair at all (the cow! ) but on the whole IMO black skin and straight hair is not a happy pudding.

Anyone else?

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Kassius · 29/07/2008 23:32

i think this thread is just another example of how we all expect people to share our own views on whats attractive/stylish/appropriate.
never gonna happen
its sad that african/carribean women have often been encouraged (by the media and popular culture) that the more european they look - straight hair, lighter skin, less curves - the more acceptable and attractive they are. I hope that is changing.

can i just say
"when left to their own devices they would fairly much thrive like America has (the world's greatest social experiment). "



Also mag7, you seem to be far too gleeful over this chance to catch out the dreaded pc brigade but mth has already said that wasnt actually the purpose of the thread.

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Capital · 29/07/2008 23:57

Cannot possibly read this whole thread but cannot pass it by either.

I have always strongly desired afro hair for myself. Am part Indian therefore dark and straight hairways. Experimented with perms at an early age but they were generally a little.

I am gutted when I see straightened hair on my african/carribean friends. Straightened and* highlighted makes me want to cry.

Mother (age 69), on the other hand, has permed herself to frizzola madness.

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thumbwitch · 30/07/2008 00:00

capital lol at "frizzola madness" - reminded me of my mum's late 70s/early 80s perm - her hair was far too fine for it and even a hemi-demi-semi perm turned it into poodle pile-up!

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Dragonbutter · 30/07/2008 00:09

Well why didn't you say ...i'm going to sleep on it. Bloody interesting.
Food for thought.

Is there any harm done in feeling sensitive/offended by statements we perceive to be racist?

I feel mocked and am not comfortable with it as I feel judgements have been made upon what type of person I am and what my personal experiences are despite being one of the few who have hung around to find out what you're getting at.



...and i 100% agree with the statement about America being way behind in what you call social cohesion and integration. I used to live there and that place is f**ked up. but then, if what you say about me is true, then i would say that.
night all.

and wtf is asian eye surgery?

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thumbwitch · 30/07/2008 00:17

i'm sure someone else more knowledgable will tell you, but I think it's where Sino-Asians have eyelids operated on to look like Western eyelids

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Wuxiapian · 30/07/2008 03:42

Yes, I remembering hearing/reading about this new craze out east for eyelid surgery. I think it's incredibly sad.

As for hair, I'm of mixed heritage - West Indian/English (white) and have naturally curly, slightly frizzy hair akin to the natural Beyonce picture.

I actually like my curls. I have never straightened my hair, but one of my best friends (of indian asian origin) is always banging on about me straightening it - says she wants to "glam" me up. She thinks I'll look better.

It gets right on my tits - these ideologies (sp?) of what's beautiful.

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slim22 · 30/07/2008 04:44

mrsT thanks for reply without shouting unlike M7.

If you read my posts you should have noticed I did read and understand and find most of the thread funny but still I repeat, I am not at ease with the unnecessarely catchy title. End of story.
There was no need to turn this into anything else that a bad hair day post.

As for the assumption that am a white centered guilt filled politically correct zealot erm........ not.
Am African. Not ebony black but not exactly your average caucasian. Lived all my life travelling on 4 continents in countries where I was perceived as minority and too well acquainted with rampant racist "humour" not to react.

You CAN call me over sensitive on this subject. But I feel I have the right to express am offended without being called names.

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LyraSilvertongue · 30/07/2008 14:55

I do still think the Op was a bit out of order. it's like saying "fat people and summer dresses don't mix" and then saying "oh, I'm allowed to say that because I'm fat too". People will still take offence.

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Wuxiapian · 30/07/2008 15:56

I agree with OP's point of views re black hair.

I think it's a shame that people can't be proud of their natural selves without bowing to these superficial pressures.

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MrsThierryHenry · 31/07/2008 12:16

If those summer dresses were made of skin-tight lycra, Lyra, I wouldn't hesitate to say something like that! I don't think that's out of line (even though I'm not fat) and as in my OP, I wouldn't say it in an agressive or unkind way.

So, to come to my OP, which some of you have a real issue with. If I'd said something like 'black women look stupid with straight hair' I could imagine why people would take offence, but IMO 'generally don't go well together', and 'would suit them so much better' are rather mild ways of stating my point. The overall tone of what I wrote was pretty light-hearted, no?

Dragonbutter: 'Is there any harm done in feeling sensitive/offended by statements we perceive to be racist?' No, I agree with you that there's no harm done with regard to that. The problem on this thread was that nobody really asked me to clarify what I meant, they just got into a towering rage based on their presumptions.

Slim22, I'm glad things have calmed down somewhat. It almost looks like a good cop/ bad cop routine between M7 and I, though I'm sure she didn't mean any real harm. Also don't forget that strong statements do often sound even stronger on paper without the benefits of vocal tone and facial expression. I'm really glad we've had this conversation about black hair; it's interesting to hear your viewpoint. I disagree that my point was merely a 'bad hair day' post; I am making a serious point about how many black women style their hair every day.

Interestingly, since we've started this conversation I've seen heaps and heaps of women out and about with terrible straight hairstyles - if I were really evil I'd have taken a piccy and posted them for you to see! (Don't worry, I'm not that horrible!). I just look at them and sigh, wishing they had the confidence to try breaking away from straightening. I don't think I'm being presumptuous here, by the way, when I say that probably the majority of black women who straighten have lost touch with their natural hair. If my experience and that of my friends is anything to go by, this is sadly the case most, if not all, of the time.

Capitol - PMSL at frizzola!

Has anyone seen the BBC Jamelia programme yet? I posted a link somewhere above...I think Jamelia, like Beyonce, looks gorgeous in anything. She also has what I mentioned earlier - a narrow nose, and also very fine bone structure. So that makes a big difference - if you see the clip of her talking to schoolgirls, there's one very sweet, shy-looking girl with a heavy, straight fringe. Her face is roundish, with a 'round' nose, etc - and I think this hairstyle does not suit her one bit. If you swapped that for some big curls I think it would improve her look greatly.

Someone please tell me Jamelia's had extensive tummy tuck surgery...I mean, two kids and a tum like that?

OP posts:
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TheMagnificent7 · 31/07/2008 16:06

Afternoon.

Was on Wikipedia trying to find Slim22's definition of 'an average caucasion'. Didn't have much time but was expecting it next to the 'Dulux Race Colour Chart For Those In Generalisation Frame Of Mind'.

It was a really light hearted post, one in which MTH deliberately didn't say what her race/colouring is. Because the title mentioned colour, the PCers kick started their Tall Steeds and immediately leapt to the defence of all of the poor black people that were offended. Erm. None. It was about bad hair. MTH knew, or havily suspected this would happen, and even said on the OP that it was a bored Friday thing. There's more than a little intelligence and mischief at work there. But if you didn't get it then don't worry, it's a lot less important than a bad 'do'.

Slim22, you said the post was, sick, and there was nothing funny about it at all. You have rather splendidly changed your tune, and I'm sure all of the 'average Caucaisions' will be over the moon, along with the 'averagely obese', 'averagely brown', 'averagely disabled', and the 'averagely gay'.

I made a comment about America, and again, as is so usual here, everyone, inc you MTH, has taken residence down my throat. I'm talking about a nation that had widespread slavery mainly from black nations, abolished it totally by 1860, and has gone from black citizens becoming free from slavery, to being 1st or second in the race to the White House (iront anyone?). I'd hate to suggest that anyone in America had said "Right, um, how do we get some popularity? I know, lets do what them Brits did and put up either a Woman or a Black. That'll show how forward we are, forget who is best for the job". As MTH said, if you haven't spent more than two weeks there being entertained by a great big (black) mouse, then probably best to leave off tht horse for the moment.

The ignorant cry I got on here before was "What about Katrina, hey?". Well, yes, what about Katrina ? I was in Florida in the aftermath, and in St Louis by the Misssissippi last year, both areas which suffered greatly. I think most people think that Katrina hit a small area in a sports stadium somewhere and specifically just blew the hair about of the whites whilst whipping up all the military guns and shooting the blacks. Get a grip. Here is todays lesson. Yes there were many things wrong with the local, county, state, and government responses, but none of them were specifically aimed at anyone of any colour. That's just simply sensationalist nonsense, and largely made credible by Kanye West in ain impromptu speech. This, he admitted had only just occurred to him and he;d been shoppoing a lot before he'd thought about a contribution.

In the figures for the New Orleans area, you'll see that the proportion of Black citizens that died was 49%, which is against the overall ethnic split of the area, which is 60%. In all of the areas I was in, all of the citizens were working together to make anything they could give work. All hotels were offering accomodation for anyone that was displaced. I didn't WITNESS any signs of racial divide, rather a community working together to get over a disaster. If your frame of reference is John Craven's Newsround, then a bit of that nice BBC, then again, I suggest you get a grip. As I've said earlier, the media wants to sell papers and web space. The headlines about people being re-housed after a hurricane aren't enough. If you can throw in a fooball stadium that re-housed people where people had a hard time too, then a bit of racial divide, then bingo. The PCers are ready to boost your sales tenfold. The fact that a natural disaster went against the ethnic split in favour of the black community may make you think there is a god/divine entity/golden goose with a great Afro.

America is a nation of immigrants by default. There is a large collection of varied races, some speak louder than others, some just get on with it. In a day to day way there is no active demonstraion anywhere of racism. No segregation, no obvious class system, no seperate restaurants anymore. The only peoplpe I hear from are the Disny fans that read the Guardian on this issue. Mainly, they care about their community, which I applaud. They don't spend all of their lives lamenting something from 150 years ago, they get on with it. And the only colour that counts in America is the colour of your money.

In the UK, if you are Black, or a Woman, they want to legislate to get you more jobs because you just can't make it on your own. How does that make you feel if you fall into those categories ? How does it make you feel if you are Asian, and can't get any help because you are the wrong shade.

I'm for total equality, and unbiased reporting. Anyone see the news and how disappointed they were last year when there was another massive earthquake in Indonesia, but no Tsunami. You could see the reporters visibly disapponted that only a few hundred people had been killed.

I'm glad some of what I[ve said has helped some of you. Slim, you're not doing it for me i'm afraid. I'm on the cusp of being offended if any of you are assuming my colour, race, sex, size of do, ability to walk/talk/read unbiased papers/ Please don't, it doesn't make any difference.

As it happens my hair is like a bunch of hedgehogs pubes on a moist summers day and I have to keep it short otherwise I look like a 70's Carry On character.

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CuckooClockWiseCrack · 31/07/2008 20:20

eugh, the hair in that link hurts my eyes. Prefer straightened hair definitely.

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CuckooClockWiseCrack · 31/07/2008 20:25

I only got as far as page 3, but quick post for EDAM, I also have very curly hair, and after 20 odd years of trying to straighten it, I told the hairdresser "give me a style which will look good CURLY". He nearly fell over backwards. I like it though. And I do not look like Jonathan creek which was my biggest fear.

Do it. GO Curly. Because the 'trend' for curly hair is taking YEARS to filter down from the catwalk to the high street. I've been waiting five years. I had to take matters into my own hands.

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CuckooClockWiseCrack · 31/07/2008 20:28

Flippin' 'eck, some people are posting dissertations about this!

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edam · 31/07/2008 20:32

Cuckoo, I do wear my hair curly! Just makes me feel sad when people talk about straighteners as if they are God's Gift, or curly hair as if there is nothing, nothing worse that could happen to you. A tiny taste of what it must be like to have red hair and get all those comments about being a 'ginge', I guess.

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CuckooClockWiseCrack · 31/07/2008 20:36

Yes! People keeping asking me if I have GHDs. eh, no, does it look like I do? I feel like replying? But obviously there's a not very well coded message there.

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edam · 31/07/2008 20:43

There are two other mothers at ds's primary school who wear their curls with pride. That's a school of more than 300 children! Even given an adjustment for siblings, must be something like 170 women with straight hair to three of us curlies.

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CuckooClockWiseCrack · 31/07/2008 20:45

Even on a rainy day? hee hee! The ones up put up their umbrellas or dive under yours, they probably have curly hair (their deep dark secret?)

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KnightCider · 31/07/2008 21:03

Themagnificent7 - When you try, as you so often do, to sound well read on any subject you are debating here, it's worth remembereing that hastily googled, paper thin soundbites are possibly far more obvious to other posters than you think. I did, at one point think that although you are an arse you were also fairly interesting and informed, but the more of your dissertations i come across the quicker that illusion is fractured.
Oh and you know how you like to frequent threads on racial issues, lambasting the right on types while trying to retain the impression that you just might be black yourself? Well, it's not worknig either. you have an axe to grind and clearly think you're doing so in a clever, double-bluff sort of way - but nope, aint working.

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TheMagnificent7 · 31/07/2008 21:23

Hello you x

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KnightCider · 31/07/2008 21:42

Hmmph

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TheMagnificent7 · 31/07/2008 22:02

Love the new name by the way. You've been very quiet. So am I an uninteresting but informed arse now ? Perhaps uninformed, but still interesting ? Or in your estimation, just fractured ("I bet those buttocks have never been twit two broken planks!")

It's really nie to have a fan club though. Thanks Stan

x

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LyraSilvertongue · 31/07/2008 22:26

Too many looooong posts. Keep it short 'n' sweet, ladies.

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thumbwitch · 01/08/2008 01:29

I have curly sandy hair. I was called ginge etc a lot at school. And Crystal Tips. And haystack, etc, etc. Nothing so far has made me feel the need to either change the colour or straighten it. I just look forward to the cyclical return of the long curly bedhead look so I can be in fashion without trying.

A friend did try and persuade me that some kind of hair "product" would "improve" my hair; and bought me some for my b'day. I tried the curl wax (or whatever the hell it was) and my hair was disgustingly sticky afterwards). Bollocks to it, thought I, and binned the lot. Straighteners - no way. Takes far too long and I prefer my bed. Likewise with tongs.

The only hair dyeing I have done is to increase the redness as it has faded a bit to more of a sandy medium blonde.

I LIKE my hair and sod anyone else who tries to make me change it!

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edam · 01/08/2008 09:56

A looong time ago my boss used to call me Brian May... cheeky git. To be fair, that was not the rudest nickname in the office. He was called Hitler, not because he was nasty, but because he only had one ball (testicular cancer).

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