Am I the only one who thinks that black women and straight hair generally don't go well together?

[MrsThierryHenry]

Yes, it's Friday afternoon idle timewasting chat time!

When I see a black woman (or man, for that matter) with straight hair, I just can't help thinking that 99% of the time some lovely curls would suit them SO much better. Compare this to this.

Now, okay, perhaps Beyonce's not the best example here, as she would look amazing even with no hair at all (the cow! ) but on the whole IMO black skin and straight hair is not a happy pudding.

Anyone else?

[Dragonbutter]

www.vh1.com/photos/gallery/?fid=1475596&pid=1535018
i dunno, i can't tell from these pics. but she suits it straight that's for sure.

[1973]

mmhmm, so you tweak your hair to your liking.
dont we all?
my neighbour has very big, bouncy curls an i can think of no other style that would suit her more but can think of a couple of people i know who straighten and they definitely suit this style more.
any two black women can look as diverse as any two white women. you cant just apply blanket rules based on their suppoosed looks or features.

(on a seerate point, i cant help sniggering at all the faux Gosh why would you think such a thing/ mock shock going on here)

[kittywise]

I think black women can look amazing with straight hair, infact I have seen wonderfully and varying styles, whether beaded cornrows, straightened and various degrees of curls.
I know afro hair is tricky to care for but lovely to look at.

[MrsThierryHenry]

As I said in my OP, Beyonce's not the best example, being utterly gorgeous no matter what she does! Also as for her having straight hair naturally...dragonbutter it sounds like you're not all that familiar with afro hair styling. She uses extensions, really expensive ones that most people can't afford, which is why she has such long locks, and why it always looks natch.

However, I live in an area with lots of black women, some of whom have chemically straightened hair, others of whom have a much cheaper version of Beyonce's extensions (I'm talking weaves here, not braids) and I have to say quite honestly that most of those with straight hair do not suit it. (I'd never say it so bluntly to them, of course! If they asked my opinion I'd be much gentler about it)

I say this as a woman who's tried both types of straight hair in the past, so my viewpoint comes from experience as well as observation! It's a real pity that not only do lots of black women lose touch with the beauty of their natural hair, but also they often replace it with a style that just doesn't flatter.

1973, I know what you mean about the mock shock on this thread! I think it's probably because I'm talking about black women. If I'd said 'I think girls who wear the council house face-lift hairdo just don't suit it', nobody would have batted an eyelid. Or 'I think some face shapes just don't suit long hair' - again there would be no controversy over such a statement.

But when you mention skin colour people get in a tizz, don't they! BTW when I talk about 'black' skin I mean Afro-Caribbeans, not Asians - IME it's assumed that 'black' means 'Afro-Car'. I've always lived among Asian people and never heard them refer to themselves as being 'black'.

Also some people on this thread took umbrage at my description of 'African features' - this is just not a big deal if you're talking amongst black people, we all know that that basically refers to having a straight, narrow nose, which makes a huge difference to what hairstyles do and don't suit. Most black people don't have that kind of nose (well...not naturally!).

PMSL at white dreadlocks comment! I agree! I've never seen a white person who suits dreadlocks, either!

[MrsThierryHenry]

Dragonbutter, I've just looked through those Beyonce pics you posted. You should be aware that there are some parents who will straighten their children's afro hair right from the start. It's highly, highly unlikely that a black person would be born with naturally straight hair - even most 'mixed race' (hate that term) people - like my DS - still have natural curls.

[alardi]

I think some black women do look strange with straight hair, you can just tell it's not their own.

What bothers me more is that you hardly ever see black (by which I mean African origin) women with naturally curly hair any more. What happens if you don't want to use all those nasty chemical straighteners? Why should they have to go the hassle in order to be considered to look 'good'?

There's a local African-origin woman with a flopping great big Afro hair do (tiny kinky curls) And I love to see it. There was never anything wrong with hair like that.

[princessglitter]

I'm mixed race and have naturally curly hair and sometimes feel like an oddity when people at work talk about their straighteners and how much they hate their natural curls. The fashion for straight hair does make me feel unattractive sometimes .

Am glad you posted this thread, I will be proud of my curls, they are a bit like Beyonce's in that pic, although I wish I had her face to match

[reethi96]

What an odd OP.

[EyeballsintheSky]

So no one else is disgusted that Beyonce's parents are gorgeous too

I used to sit on the bus behind a black woman with the most amazing intricately twisted and braided hair. I always regret that I didn't just ask her about it instead of sitting transfixed!

[edam]

The fashion for straight hair makes me feel a little sad occasionally, as I have naturally curly hair. I'm not Black, but hearing people talk about straighteners and the horror of curls does make me feel a bit woeful. I LIKE my curls and sod anyone who doesn't!

[MrsThierryHenry]

Eyeballs, I'm just disguising my disgust!

Alardi and Edam, I agree. The other sad thing about women straightening their hair is that it's SO BAD for your hair and scalp! It dries out the hair, leaving it prone to breakage and split ends unless you go for monthly steaming treatments at the hairdressers (so much for having 'easier' hair) and leaves your scalp flaky and itchy. I heard that the chemicals are similar to hair removing chemicals - just imagine sticking handfuls of Veet on your head?!

It would be so lovely if more black women were confident about working with their hair, rather than against it. So, Edam - you go for it, girl! Love your fabulous curls!

Lyra, I'm interested to know why you're getting fed up with straightening?

[LyraSilvertongue]

Oh, you know, all the harsh chemicals, and then it doesn't really stay straight without a little help from the GHDs, which make the condition worse. Then there's the risk of going out in the rain and ending up looking like a scarecrow.
I'll give the twisty thing a go - I presume it's fairly low-maintenance once it's done?

[Dragonbutter]

thanks for the tutorial mrsthierryhenry , but really I'm as familiar with afro hair styling as i can be having been through it all with my friends. it's painful, expensive and bloody hard work. but I also love the variety of hairstyles that my black friends go for. whereas I've only changed the length/colour of my hair over the past few years they have complete new hairdos regularly.
and yes i do look sh*t with my hair braided.
and yes I do think my friends look great when their hair is natural...I even prefer it.
but i doesn't mean straight hair doesn't suit them.

i know you said 'generally speaking' or something like it in your OP but I think people generally don't like generalisations like that
hence the unpopularity of this thread.

oh, and apologies for my ignorance on the 'mixed race' thing. I thought it was perfectly plausible for beyonce to have naturally straight hair. i stand corrected.

[TheMagnificent7]

Lol. Nice one MrsTH. Your excercise in challenging stereotypes has worked perfectly. I'd guessed at the beginning, but nobody else really seemed to. I love it when they all get out of shape the second anyone mentions skin tone.

Lol.

[TheMagnificent7]

I don't know that you can call the hair straightening a fashion. This is the Classic Motown website, and it seems to be more a music related thing, hence Beyonce, than a fad. Have a look at the (fantastic) Diana Ross page. All of her albums are there, mainly with straight hair, or that madder, later stage kind of Kate Bush thing going on. But look at the album with Marvin Gaye. Afro city.

It's a beautiful thread, and thanks for your mischief. I love watching the PCers backpeddling when they don't know what to say. For what it's worth, regardless of descent, colour, background, money, Trinny and Tranny always swear by a hairdo making the woman, so it really makes no difference as we are all slightly different shape wise. The sooner you all forget the skin colour tag, and get on with the person tag, the sooner racism will be forgotten. The white people that are on this thread all outraged at your original post have no idea what to say now.

PMSL

[MadameOvary]

My friend would agree with you MTH, her mum is white, her dad was Jamaican, so she is always bemoaning that she got the worst of both worlds - a perma frizz. So it gets straightened regularly with chemicals.

TBH I thought she protested a bit much. She is gorgeous and I always told her she should go afro with pride, but finally I understand that she straightens her hair because it isnt "proper" afro hair (which she says is stonger) but very brittle and prone to breaking.

Not quite the same as "wanting to look white" but still involving chemicals and straighters, so it ruins her hair.

[brimfull]

I agree that overly straightened and processed hair looks bad and people with curly hair should work with it not against it.

My d's friend has ruined her hair by over straightening it.

[MrsThierryHenry]

Lyra, I find it's great in terms of being low-maintenance. If you do it yourself you should definitely use a proper loc and twist gel otherwise it won't last as long. I buy a cheap one from Organic Root Stimulator which costs only a couple of quid.

Once it's twisted you can either leave it be or plait it (I plait mine into three large corn rows) to stretch out the twists and make them wavy. If you do this, bear in mind that by fiddling with the twists the style will start to loosen. If you just leave them be it should last a few weeks (4 weeks, maybe? depends on the hair). You might need to re-do the front and back twists if they start to loosen up.

The other thing you should do is to make sure you use a good moisturiser every day/ every other day or so - according to what's best for your hair. Good luck! I find the internet is really useful for info on styling afro hair, so I hope you find some useful stuff there, too. Do let me know how you get on. xxx

[MrsThierryHenry]

Mag7, we have the same cheeky sense of humour, I see?! .

It's been a very interesting conversation. It does make me laugh when people read something vaguely controversial-sounding and then

(1) leap to all sorts of conclusions, then
(2) go nuts without actually checking what they've read!

So I have had a giggle at some of the responses here - although I assure you that I did not start this thread just to take the p*ss out of people. If any of you are still reading this thread, next time perhaps you should ask the OP for clarification before venting your spleen!

MadameO (FABULOUS name!) - what a crying shame that your friend has such a bad 'relationship' with her natural hair. It took me a long time to 'get back in touch' with my natural hair - very hard when you've straightened for years. But I persisted and now, although I am well aware of how difficult my hair would be, I am so glad that it's in far better condition than it could ever have been whilst straightened.

Dragonbutter, I'd expect to hear your 'painful, expensive and bloody hard work' comments from someone who's still struggling against their natural hair. Funnily enough that description is true of hair straightening, so it really doesn't support the idea of 'relaxing' afro hair at all. As I said before, I've been there in the past. My hair is natural now and I would never use those words to describe my hair. As for your comments about my making generalisations - come on! Don't be so disingenuous! Don't we all generalise?!

[Janni]

Hats off to anyone who has the energy to tease their hair out of its natural state on a daily basis. I am WAY too lazy.

[TheMagnificent7]

I think we'll get along just fine MrsTH (Va Va Voom).

You'll see from some of my other posts that I like equality to be totally equal. And I've found that some of the ignorance in inequality on here is stunning. Everybody seems to think they know the laws and ins and outs, then invariably go and f**k someone off. Your demonstration was a perfect example. People itch to shout racist, and interestingly will almost never shout it at anyone that isn't (poorly) classified as White British. Anyone know how long we all have to live here before we can all just be British ?

Anyway, hair. I think the straight hair look is OK, but many black people can't carry it off as well as Beyonce/Diana Ross/Tyra Banks. This is probably due to their million dollar hair piece allowance (and well done for dropping the extensions thing in so late in the conversation lol). I'm voting for an all out return to the Afro. There is a a girl that works in the Pelliroco hotel in Brighton who has the most beautiful slim body, I mean super model jealous slim, and the biggest roundest afro I've ever seen. I thought John Shaft was going to pop out with my chips.

To completely balance this argument, my mother spent most of the latter part of her life with what she generously called Plum hair, and I always maintained it was purple. I don't care what colour she was (erm...if you see what I mean) purple hair is just wrong. But right. But wrong. On anyone.

Right. Lets go and jump on a thread and challenge some more sterotypes. I vote for disabled next. Lets go get the 'oh we put in a ramp' brigade. Anyone know the term for someone that isn't disabled friendly ? Disablist sounds wrong.

[TheMagnificent7]

The Beyonce hair thing is bugging me now.

[QuintessentialShadows]

So in essence, SOME black women who is using the cheap version of straightening hair, does not suit it. That is what this long thread boils down to.

So what?

I can somehow see your point, having lived in various areas of London, I have seen enough women of whatever ethnic origin having straightened their hair in such a fashion that it looks like it is sugarcoated, there are ringlets of their actual curls, flattened, within the "hair structure" that has been plastered flat from both over and underneath. But I reckon these women think they look better like this. Nobody tweaks their hair to something worse than it was originally and goes "wahey I look cool". Or do they?

[TheMagnificent7]

Hey Quint. I didn't start the thread, but I think you have it in a nutshell. Yes, sugar coated. That's exactly what I think looks average. Extensions look good because they are crafted. Some people from a mixed background get the long straight hair gene which suits in straight or ringlets. White people do not look good with dreads, except perhaps Gary Oldman in True Romance.

You wouldn't be trying to start a row now would you ? The 'so what' comment kind of defies the WHOLE reason youre on a discussion board. It's a discussion. As it happens, a remarkably useful one for hightlighting peoples ongoing problems with what they perceive as racism when it's actually just everyday conversation.

Fancy a Hob Nob ?

[chipmonkey]

This reminds me of an Oprah show years ago where the theme was that we should all stop fighting with our hair and go with how nature intended it to be. So mainly it meant that we should neither perm nor straighten our hair. I have to say that most of the women did look better when they went with the way their hair behaved naturally.