Formal event. No bra?

[LettuceSpray]

I have a really lovely friend. We have been good friends since our children were born 30 years ago.She’s an old school feminist in her 70s, doesn’t wear make up etc. I admire that, and I am a jeans and t shirt minimal make up kind of person but, do have an eye for trends and make an effort to scrub up well a couple of times a year.

Friend is about to be awarded a major honour which will involve a day out in a very fancy place and lots of photos (perhaps you can work out where and what I mean). She has asked me for advice on what to wear. She refuses to buy anything new, but what’s worse is she has modelled potential outfits for me and they all involve dead flat sensible shoes and no bra. I am fully aware how shallow I sound. I don’t think she needs to invest a fortune in new clothes and a hat but with old flat shoes and no bra she looks as though she really doesn’t care. And she does care, she’s really quite conventional and very proud of the honour. She just doesn’t seem to have picked up on how people dress smartly. I think she associates underwear, make up and formal clothes with old fashioned conformism (yes she really is a a 1970s style feminist).

How can I convince her very diplomatically that she would look much more appropriate with a bra, tiny weeny bit of make up and some dressy shoes? Not at all stiff, formal and expensive but a bit less Greenham Common? (GC women were awesome and inspirational but friend has specifically asked for advice on a look appropriate to the place and occasion).

Book a personal shopper appointment for yourself and ask her to come with you? Hopefully it might persuade her to do the same??

What would she say if you and a few other mutual friends treated her to a new outfit to celebrate and show her how proud you are of her?

I think you need to emphasise looking smart rather than stereotypically feminine. So still herself and her own style just a smartened up version. I like the idea of offering to club together and treat her to a new outfit

Does she not want to buy anything new for environmental reasons or cost? If the former she could hire something suitable. There's always ebay / vinted she could resell afterwards.

It depends on the event really. OBE at the Palace, needs a bra. Industry awards, maybe not.

I would be happy to treat her to an outfit. She has some quite new outfits already though. They are smart and from a reasonably pricy store. The issue is she plans to wear them with walking shoes, no make up or hairdresser visit and no bra. Yes I know that sounds shallow and trivial of me but she is actually quite conventional and I am sure she wants to look the part but doesn’t know how.

If she’s such a good friend, can’t you just be honest with her? She has asked for advice on what would look appropriate, just say well, this is what women usually wear to this kind of event and give pointers/ examples. I think she can then make up her own mind about underwear and cosmetics. I’m sure she’s aware that most women wear bras especially at formal events. I don’t think you need to convince her to do either, diplomatically or not.

I found the owner a hire shop advised me about shoes, bra, hair style and make up which might solve your problem.

Honestly I'm kind of with her, she needs to be true to who she is. Whilst I would never go braless due to being generous in that department, I would happily go to a formal event without make up and in doc martens or similar, I would clean them though! I don't see why anyone should be forced into smart shoes or makeup

I really don’t think a bra is necessary to look smart or put together.

If she has specifically asked for advice what did you tell her?

If she doesn’t want to take your opinion on board there’s not much you can do

I guess I haven’t been explicit enough.

She’s getting an honour at the palace(higher than OBE) She has some outfits that are quite suitable really no need for me to buy any more for her. It’s the way she plans to style them. How can i diplomatically say that bra, tiny bit of make up, brush to her hair and non hiking shoes would help? She has asked me for advice, I am not just pushing it on her and it is nothing at all to do with me thinking she should be more stereotypically feminine.

What age is she?

Does it need to be a conventional bra? What if it were something like a bralet or one of those slightly structured no underwire types of cropped tops?

I honestly think she should be herself..why should we wear bras?

Just saw your last post.
Just ask if she needs help choosing shoes to go with her outfit and casually ask is she planning to have her hair and makeup done, maybe recommend a salon/ mua?
I probably just wouldn’t mention the bra thing tbh. She’s a grown woman, she knows how to find a bra if she feels the need for one.

@pizzaHeart mid 70s.

@imeanwhy yes, exactly my thoughts. But how to suggest that without sounding really shallow?

@RareMaker because not wearing a bra makes a huge difference to how you look imo.

Can you explain to her that there will be lots of photographs taken and she might not want it to be so obvious that she isn't wearing a bra, also a smart outfit will look more professional with a bra on. If she hates bras how about suggesting she wears a crop top or bralette instead.

As for shoes, it's not necessary to wear heels to look smart but there are lots of flat alternatives that will be more suitable for the venue( palace?) than walking shoes.

If it is there the decor of the rooms is full on magnificence, gold etc so she needs an outfit to live up to this very special event. Can you persuade her by saying it's a once in a lifetime thing etc and she probably should dress better than she's ever done before, doing so doesn't mean she has abandoned her principles.

I don’t know how we can tell you how to phrase that diplomatically. Just tell her directly but kindly 🤷‍♀️

If you have a look at the Royal Family Instagram feed they often post pics of people receiving their honours and you can see how nicely turned out they are. Might be worth a flick through some of those "for inspiration" and you'll see the convention people follow.

If you have an eye for trends, surely you know that flat shoes are in fashion right now? Heels are very dated.

This

I think there's a middle ground between heels and hiking boots. I'd suggest brogues?

Absolutely agree! And I only wear DMs, loafers and trainers myself even for dressing up occasions. I don’t think she needs to wear high heels at all. However, all of her shoes are kind of hiking/trail shoes or ergonomic librarian/teacher type shoes in bright colours. They just don’t go with the smart outfits she has bought for herself. For example, ballet shoes would work better

https://www.instagram.com/p/C7Tmux-tVUY/?igsh=bTcxZ3I4cG92bTNp

Hope this works. It's got lots of women, all with very different styles but they all look like themselves and very smart. It might help relieve some of your concerns OP, as one lady is not very "palace", but looks perfect too.

I think it’s fair to tell her hiking shoes won’t be suitable, tell her to get some nice flats in a colour she likes.

Can you get her a voucher for a blow dry the day before/morning of?