Formal event. No bra?

[LettuceSpray]

I have a really lovely friend. We have been good friends since our children were born 30 years ago.She’s an old school feminist in her 70s, doesn’t wear make up etc. I admire that, and I am a jeans and t shirt minimal make up kind of person but, do have an eye for trends and make an effort to scrub up well a couple of times a year.

Friend is about to be awarded a major honour which will involve a day out in a very fancy place and lots of photos (perhaps you can work out where and what I mean). She has asked me for advice on what to wear. She refuses to buy anything new, but what’s worse is she has modelled potential outfits for me and they all involve dead flat sensible shoes and no bra. I am fully aware how shallow I sound. I don’t think she needs to invest a fortune in new clothes and a hat but with old flat shoes and no bra she looks as though she really doesn’t care. And she does care, she’s really quite conventional and very proud of the honour. She just doesn’t seem to have picked up on how people dress smartly. I think she associates underwear, make up and formal clothes with old fashioned conformism (yes she really is a a 1970s style feminist).

How can I convince her very diplomatically that she would look much more appropriate with a bra, tiny weeny bit of make up and some dressy shoes? Not at all stiff, formal and expensive but a bit less Greenham Common? (GC women were awesome and inspirational but friend has specifically asked for advice on a look appropriate to the place and occasion).

Does your friend have issues with her feet? DM only wears trainers or hiking shoes due to a fallen arch on one foot.

She asked for your advice so tell her your advice!

it sounds lile you’re worried she’ll like your insulting her style. But you’re not - your very clearly saying this is what is appropriate for this one very specific situation which she clearly doesn’t know about and has asks you!

id just say for this kind of unsual
formal event women wear bras, dressier shoes (that can still be flat). I wouldn’t worry about make up to be honest. I would recommend a hair dressing appointment - but long enough before that if it’s a disaster it can be redeemed!

Then I think you say that you think the outfit is great but it might look more polished with some different underwear, and that you think most people at x event will probably be wearing make up/ more formal shoes/ have their hair done.
Emphasise what you think other people will be wearing if she wants to fit in, not that you think she would look nicer 'if' etc.
Maybe vinted or charity shop for shoes if she's reluctant to but something new? Can you lend her anything?
Maybe add some jewellery?

@dizzydizzydizzy she doesn’t have issues with her feet. However, to be honest many women over 65 (I’m nearly there) choose extra comfortable footwear to be on the safe side.

Thanks for all your advice. To be very clear, I don’t think she should be wearing heels or anything overly formal or not suiting who she is. I just was thinking of a slightly smarter version of herself.

I was looking for how to actually word the advice I give her without offending her or making her think I am totally empty headed and shallow.She did ask me for advice but ..

Flat shoes and no makeup is completely acceptable!!! Apart from anything else she would be really uncomfortable if not used to wearing them.

The bra thing I do think she should change for the palace. But if that's how she wants to be then it's not like she's got her boobs out is it she will be wearing clothes that cover her

It’s really not ok to tell your friend she needs to wear makeup. You’re literally telling her that her own skin and face isn’t good enough.
Also, her choice not to wear a bra. Maybe not with a sheer/see through top, but other than that……

Men would not be told to wear makeup, heels and a bra……… she is fine as she is.

I don't think you should get involved at all. If she's comfortable then she's fine. You've said she's picked suitable clothes. Job done. I wouldn't be putting on make-up or having my hair styled either. I do wear a bra because I find it more comfortable than not. Hiking shoes might look a bit out of place but who cares?

She's asked you for advice so just be honest, I think your outfit would look better if you wore a bra and some smart shoes. Why not go for a trim and a blow dry too?

She's a grown woman, it's up to her if she takes your advice or not but I'm sure she'll know it's coming from a good place and it's unlikely she'll take offence.

Have you seen any shoes that would go with one of her existing outfits that would be suitable (but in line with her style)
could you suggest she tries them?

I think if she asked you for an advice you need to word it directly. This sort of events usually have dress code mentioned on the invite or whatever she received. If it’s not mentioned there are rules as there are going to be official photos and probably some VIPs present.
I’ve asked about the age as it often affects choice of clothes/ footwear. So I wouldn’t insist too harshly on a particular thing but definitely on a different style.
Someone mentioned “professional look” I think it’s a very good argument, plus looking for a past photos, plus maybe saying that she will represents community/ charity/ village/ town so it’s not only about her.
And you need to word it positively that you will help her with pleasure, you are so happy and proud for her, which is true. All these changes might be a big thing for her if she usually dressed up differently, it might be quite overwhelming.

Maybe ask her to describe how she’d like to feel on the day. Does she want smart, glamorous, comfortable, stylish, presentable, etc? Does she want to feel
special in her outfit, or is she worried about not feeling like her true self?
Perhaps you could look for images together which capture the ethos of the image she wants to portray.

this could lead on to a discussion about how she could use the clothes in her wardrobe to best effect to deliver on her vision. That might not involve a bra, but might bring her to her own conclusion about shoes, hair or accessories without you having to directly criticise her usual choices.

I know this is S&B but, for god's sake, you ARE being shallow and quite offensive. Your friend's being honoured for what she does, not trying to keep up appearances at a PTA meeting.

Think of Mo Mowlam - here she is, if you're too young to know. Her official Parliamentary portrait is the smartest she ever looked - as you can see, she had her hair done for it and wore lipstick. I see no reason whatsoever why the same wouldn't be enough for your friend.

Camila Batmanghelidjh dressed DOWN to receive her CBE, in flowing purple velvet with no bra and comfy shoes.

to be fair there is so much standing around and walking involved in these things I don't blame her wanting comfy feet.

I would get her to visit a decent bra place with the outfit to see the difference tried on, maybe with some shoe shopping that make to measure type thing or more comfort focussed smart shoes so comfort can be the priority without being too fuddy duddy or could the old flats be smartened up in anyway?. But its hard, like I say there is no quarter given at the palace for infirmities even though they claim to make things accessible for those less able the couple of times I have been I was disappointed with how older less firm people were treated, the second time I wore trainers till just before the time to be presentable and carried a decent size bag that would take them folded down etc.

Bra too much more comfy and very trendy.

Hairdo voucher as treat. She rocks.

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Me

Could you offer to blow dry her hair and do her a little make up? Tell her it's so much easier to choose a special outfit when you're a bit more 'done'. Then ask her to try all of her outfits on for you to see, suggesting she buys a plain neutral pair of comfortable shoes so she can have options on the day.

With regard to the bra situation, does she own one? If you think the outfits would look better with good underwear, then as she's asked your advice, I would say that.
Perhaps you could have a day out together buying the underwear, shoes, a few make up products and having a manicure (no polish required, just buffing) and pedicure - I think it's an amazing achievement to be going to the palace to receive an award, she should be making such a big deal of it, get as many treats in as possible I say!

You've been good friends for 30yrs and you can't say 'I think that outfit would look better with a bra and new shoes since you asked'?

"My dear friend I'm so proud of your achievements. A couple of things that I think such a formal occasion requires- a proper bra to best show off your out fit and shoes that go- shall we go shopping? I'd love to help. "

She may struggle to find comfortable shoes. I think the Queen wears shoes from Sole Bliss https://solebliss.com/products/felicity-navy-leather-patent

They do flats and low heel. You could say I’ve seen the perfect shoes to go with your outfit and show her ones you think would suit her.

Depending on what size she is a bra-top would be so much comfier for her than a bra if she's not used to wearing one. Shoes are difficult. If they more about comfort than style and if she is used to wearing hiking boots then wearing a pair of brand new brogues or similar for a day it's going to make her really uncomfortable. Perhaps a pair of smart trainers instead of her hiking boots as a compromise?
Just tell her straight, she has asked for your opinion. Tell her you love her outfit but you think it would look better/smarter/pull the outfit together if she was wearing a bra top and smart trainers would look better than her boots. You can say it gently, she sounds like a remarkable woman and I am sure she won't mind - in fact, she will probably appreciate it.

Emma Thompson wore a lovely trouser suit and trainers when she went to a fancy place to receive a special award. Would something like this be comfortable for your friend?

https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=2a30923410df59c2&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB1003GB1003&hl=en-GB&sxsrf=ADLYWILNCuU6YRrtyfbs9izaCJTyw-Ncvw:1730854417337&q=emma+thompson+honour+palace&udm=2&fbs=AEQNm0Aa4sjWe7Rqy32pFwRj0UkWd8nbOJfsBGGB5IQQO6L3JzWreY9LW7LdGrLDAFqYDH32tgteNhtZOxnGezgnEGc89tCp1sfuWtn1zDkzfzhRqs-O7IAP8zcRLFoPO7lvZfEdQ6MTXGQ3FCUsW3gwxBD9k8L8PWX4q83K8Rxx9-ZqcJTYAY9K7sKdlELesSgHkgSkdnG0fRIA2vVEw66biCTnviofWQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwje6M-Vv8aJAxVPT0EAHdOGPfcQtKgLegQIEBAB&biw=428&bih=751&dpr=3#vhid=8ZtjNUp-hZFcQM&vssid=mosaic

Thanks very much for all your replies and suggestions.

Just to reiterate. My friend has asked me for advice. I wouldn’t dream of saying anything otherwise.

Also, I think Emma Thompson’s outfit is great. I don’t think my friend, or anyone, has to dress like Hyacinth Bouquet. And, I have mentioned a few times that the outfits she has chosen are fine and that flat shoes are of course fine as well as being on trend.

My issue is:

• The style of shoes (no issue at all about being flat)
• Not wearing a bra

I do think that doing something with her hair and make up would also be a good idea but since this is something I rarely do myself I don’t think I will mention it.