Les Parisiennes des Mamanset: On the Advent of Newness

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

Previous thread

(I've removed the usual links to recommended shops and other places guides from the OP because I suspect they're getting very out of date at this point)

Tbh micro it sounds like there's more wrong with it than right and my mother's advice of, if in doubt don't proceed, should probably cover it.

Thanks for the article Shang, I must admit to blasphemy and say I'm no Austen fan and never got the adulation but the clothes talk has me reading. God, the savagery of the time about George Eliot's clothes is awful 😞 and then to have it documented in letters hundreds of years on... I think this is probably why I always get over annoyed when people ridicule women for caring so much about fashion/clothes, there's a historical legacy when you didn't have the luxury of not caring about it if you were female and still is the case in lots of parts of the world.

I forgot to mention about my Paris update as I was still quite in negative mode, I spotted a new brand Rier, Austrian, exceptionally beautiful fabrics (prices to match), slightly dull but if you're into that Jil Sander corner of fashion for the lovely fabrics and finishes this is better value for money.

And there was a bag brand whose name I've now forgotten, will look it up later. My biggest surprise was actually Massimo Dutti, I randomly walked into a newly kitted out one unaware it was actually MD until I got in. It's all 90s minimalism, rip off of Pawson with a few random arches thrown in (I refuse to acknowledge Japandi as an interior style as it is wank, but it would probably be labelled as such somewhat). But aside from the surprising interior, the new clothes seem to match, all very The Row, Studio Nicholson, Jil Sander, etc. Most miraculously, the quality has improved but the prices haven't moved up with this overall dial up as far as I can tell, eg. very nice Studio Nicholson style trousers in cotton drill for about a third of the price of SN. I never really rated MD for quality and there were still some stinkers but overall it's definitely improved.

Oh no, Pride and Prejudice is one of my favourite books! So light and frothy on the surface and so very dark below it. Like well made Espresso. And In my view, Mrs Bennet is up there with English literature's most wrongly maligned women. She was absolutely right to be worried and her husband was a blithering, self absorbed idiot.

And now I will take a look at micro's trousers I should warn you I don't think I've ever seen Dries VN in real life.

Actually that was a poor analogy - Espresso shouldn't be frothy, apologies to coffee purists.

There you go again, @botemp - giving away all my secrets. Not that I’ve been anywhere near an actual Rier source closer than my phone screen - but I have them right at the top of my list for the day I start leading my best life. It would be like morphing into a grown up Chalet School princess. (So far I’ve just watched their prices rising and racing ahead of my grasp …)

Oddly enough, there used to be a Massimo Dutti in a city I once lived in that gave exactly the vibe you describe - I spent hours in there, trying on beautifully tailored skirts and rifling through gorgeously finished leathers. Then they closed and I sort of lost touch with the brand. I’ve been surprised more recently to hear the quality had become disappointing - so if it’s back to its best I’m glad. Though perhaps that improvement hasn’t been transported to the UK yet.

I love that pleated wide leg trouser style micro and you're taller than I am so I'm sure you can carry it off better than I can. But yeah it does mean the pleating can balloon out over the belly and even St Margaret herself has been guilty of that.

The two tricks I know to mitigate against it are firstly to look for pleating that's been sewn down for the first few inches. I've got some from Toast that do that and I've also sewn pleats down myself a couple of times.

Even better is to find some where the pleats are positioned more towards the side seams. I don't know if you remember those Jil Sander/Uniqlo 'gauchos' from a couple of years ago but they were designed like that. (In fact I can't remember now why I sent them back but now I'm feeling cross all over again because it's so rare to find them.) I've thought of trying to make some but not got round to it yet.

In terms of the quality, then I think it's bloody cheeky of Dries VN. Whether I'd be annoyed enough to send them back would depend on how much the overall look compensated for the quality, and how hard it would be to find better. That's a tough call, especially with your height.

Crkd, soz, but it's your own fault really. You should have rejected cookies otherwise I wouldn't have the ability to see you have <attempts to count> way too many tabs open

Pleats need to face towards the pockets/side seams for me too, otherwise it just looks awful. Don't get cross over the Jil Sander trousers Flo, I had forewarned you the fabric on those were droopy and you refused to believe me and ordered some anyway when they came back in stock only to discover I was right all along... (Maybe you can find some cheaply on Vinted and take them apart to use as a pattern?)

Thank you very much for your considered response, Floisme! It helped a lot! I decided to keep the trousers as the flow of the corduroy / colour and the structure of the fabric and the fit outweigh the negatives. The simplicity of the cut [I have decided] is deceptive; they are very comfortable and somehow dramatic in the drape/sheen without being ridiculous/unwearable. They also goes well with slouchy/ asymmetric jumpers I have that I couldn't figure out how best to wear. I might stitch the pleats, thank you for the idea.

I examined my collection of trousers and I am ashamed to admit I have not noticed (!) that I do have trousers with pleats facing towards the seams vs pleats facing inwards (as bo noted). And I thought I was getting more attentive and sartorially aware [hides face in shame].

To complete the slipover/tank/vest discussion, I am happy to report that I followed bani's and flo's advice and got this thingee
It makes all combinations of shirts/jackets wearable [and it conceals under arm sweat patches on the shirt should I be as careless as to walk too fast and get hot and then need to take the jacket off]

I love that shape of top Microbius, it is really flattering and works very well with slim trousers ( I’m too short to get away with wide leg), probably skirts too but I haven’t tried that. I was delighted to find a Jigsaw one in Cancer Research on Earl’s Court road, in cotton and silk for a great price, but not so great colour, am debating whether to dye it ( I know that’s risky).

Thank you, TheGander! There are people on this thread more knowledgeable about dying. I successfully dyed a cotton jumper with Dylan machine dye - it came bright orange as I wanted (from light pink). Mixed fabrics might be more difficult but I would probably still try. My DS dyed jeans which is not supposed to work: he wanted dark green and they came out light green but still very nice. and wearable. You'd need to clean the drum afterwards though.

I use the Dylon hand dye for cotton and silk mixes - the one time I used the washing machine it bobbled all over. Hand dyeing is tedious because you have to keep stirring it so you can't walk away. But one advantage is that you have a bit more control over the colour because you watch it change and you can add extra dye during the process or mix up different colours. I find the safest option is to stay as close as you can to the original colour e.g. pick a deeper or darker shade. That way, if the stitching doesn't take the dye (and it probably won't) it's not obvious.

Also the hand dye mix doesn't include salt so you have to add your own.

Ah I remember now bo, you said 'don't do it' I did it anyway and yeah you were absolutely right, the fabric was all floppy and useless. Good idea about looking out for a second hand pair to take apart.

Thanks Flo and microbius. I have bought some Procion dye and would 100% do a cold hand dye. It is a greenish grey sort of non colour and I’m going to dye it a light green.

Morning all,

I recently acquired some Margaret Howell wide leg trousers, but I’m umming and ahhing about how to wear them. I’m trying them around the house to see if they become more normal to my eye, but so far, no dice.

They fit well around the waist and hips, with a kind of built-in cincher thingy (that I associate with waistcoats) Also no belt loops but lots of buttons - for braces?

I don’t really wear a lot of black, and these seem so voluminous that I just feel a bit lost in them. I’ve been trying the big / small contrast approach, so tighter tops, but it just doesn’t look right. Any tips?

Heels! Maybe not high ones, but shoes will be the solution, ShangPie.

I wonder whether they're supposed to sit a bit higher on the waist ShangPie? I might be wrong, and admittedly I can't see a lot of 'spare' fabric around the crotch, but I do think a really voluminous leg works better with a high waist as you get a longer 'drop'.

Very annoying that there are no belt loops. If it were me (and assuming I was keeping them), I'd shorten them and use the cut-off fabric to make some loops. I'd be highly pissed off at having to do it, especially at Margaret Howell prices, but it would mean I could cinch them in more and maybe wear them a bit higher.

Or - and you may think this is a step too far - I wonder if they're actually designed to be worn with braces? I'd be tempted to try and pick up a pair from a charity shop or similar and have a go.

I'm echoing Flo's thoughts. It feels like the inspiration point was these type of men's worker trousers which even in their original form aren't cut for aesthetic purposes so I suppose some sort of needing to embrace their lack of flattering character is part of the design intent.

I've added an extra image from Alaïa's last show where they have made it into a more flattering female silhouette. I'm not sure heels will save it, I'd want some breathing space around the neck just to break up the linearity of it all and direct the eye elsewhere but I don't know if a v-neck will alter the proportions of it enough for it to suddenly feel flattering.

Also, don't know if it's the image or your phone but they look really intensely black which would limit colours that work with it as you'd need something with similar intensity without it being too harsh a contrast? If that's the same in RL it's like an additional handicap in styling them. Have you tried anything super long with them, like a camisole with a long shirt worn open, maybe it would help break up the visual weight of the trousers?

As to my trouser woes, I found another pair of the JW Anderson's which I could try on at my leisure but the belt was missing so I'm not that much wiser. Definitely liked them more but still uhming and ahing and pretty much watching if any of the online ones drop further in price. Instead, I did finally find my perfect long turtleneck in Antwerp, just in an almost burgundy (instead of black) from Jil Sander and a really interesting Margiela knit top with intricate folds, almost like origami (it has a paper like quality and an unusual stiffness, both secondhand finds.

Also, flagging up, watched the first episode of the Cristobal Balenciaga series on Disney+, it's way better than I anticipated (also multilingual, no English so far which is surprising, even some Basque), it's really absorbing and I really like the actor playing him, he avoids being the tortured creative genius but really portrays the vulnerability so well. Also visually a delight to watch. Only six episodes so I'm pacing myself.

ShangPie, I really like your trousers; I can't quite see the problem (looking at my computer so can't enlarge). I really like how they sit around your leg widening down. I imagine what the fabric is like and I think you'll get a lot of wear out of them. I think - and from experience with similar MH trousers - a boxy shirt/jumper which ends at a very specific point between the waist and the widest part of the hip will work best. Basically, you don't leave the part where the trousers hug the hips fully exposed. I had to experiment at what length the top should end as I think this is specific to your hip /belly structure [and then I had to buy items of that length because I didn't have them; unsurprisingly, they are also from MH]

Thank you for the suggestions and pics - bo is correct (as usual) that they are exactly modelled on mens work trousers, and even have the carpenter back-leg pocket for a long ruler or tool.

I wore them all day yesterday to try and get my eye accustomed to the colour and the volume, and I found that adding a loosely-tucked denim shirt over my sweater seemed to break up the line slightly, I guess the buttons drew the eye to the middle? Rather than papyro’s heels (on a Sunday? In Homebase?!) I wore them with dark grey 90s style trainers, and they looked pretty good.

They are not quite jet-black but have a faint pinstripe that I can try to pick out when I next wear them. I will try with some different length tops as suggested by micro but I don’t think braces are really my thing flo. I can’t get them to go much higher on the waist, but I can definitely trick the eye into thinking they sit better. Experimentation is the way forward!

If they're modelled on working men's trousers then I think it's worth studying how men wear them / used to wear them. I don't mean copy exactly what they did but watch what else they wore with that style of trouser and think about how and why that might have evolved.

E.g. braces, yeah I get they're not to everyone's taste but I doubt whether they were worn purely for functional reasons. They might have started off as a way of holding the trousers up but my guess is that there was some kind of aesthetic thing going on too, even though I'm not sure what it was. Distract the eye maybe or provide a vertical line? I dunno.

(I'm talking mainly about braces in the early/mid twentieth century here, not the 80s revival which I think was something else altogether.)

Or alternatively just try other things till you hit on something that works!

@ShangPie, they are great trousers, I see what @Floisme is saying regarding a bit higher on the waist, I don't think heels is the answer, I always wear my wider legs with flats and take them to my seamstress with the shoes I intend to wear, we always have a bit of to and fro about the exactly right length. Trouser length is a bit of a funny one, I'm a shade under 5' 9" and balanced with legs and body, but I've had so many pairs of trousers that are too long. I'm not sure who manufacturers are making them for.

Re Pawson @botemp, my fantasy life involves asceticism, a very simple chair in front of a Jacobean fireplace. Well-worn lime plaster. A white robe.

Unfortunately I'm far too Catholic so my actual life involves children and chaos and colour.

I understand the protestant ethic, I have
Huguenot descendants, I love a bit of Calvinism. Pare it right back.

Maybe that's where my hatred of jewellery came from.

Ah, I have similar fantasies of when I'm old and grey fluttering about in those white The Row dresses like some high priestess. But Pawson is a bit too fond of a white plastered walls to my liking. I fear I'd live in perpetual fear of knicking a wall and ruining the whole ascetic aesthetic (I can write that but I doubt I can say that more than once). The Belgian minimalists (van Duysen leading the pack) seem a bit more liveable and they've got the Catholic thing going (but I'm also of the opinion Pawson works better in the South of France, the whole limestone, pale woods and white walls thing works better with the light there).

Well I didn't have to wait long as Farfetch offered an extra 20% off this morning in my inbox so the JW Anderson trousers should be here in a couple of days.

Trouser length is weird atm and I'm confused that so many high end brands are moving away from unhemmed trousers with a hemming service (even Uniqlo does it). I always quibble with my tailor too, I always want them a little long, almost touching the floor but that means they pool a little at the front which pains my tailor.

No @botemp,! I always saw Pawson as essentially a creature of Northern climes. The act of enclosing a void, the space in between spaces the great nothingness that is essentially Northern. Flat light. No shadows. Greyscale. Stone and Wood.

But! The joy of Pawson I guess is you fill in the blanks.

Re trousers, I like a bit of pooling, it's just better, I hate 'neat' even if it ultimately buggers them up.

And I don't need to know about Farfetch, I've got my eye on an Etro blazer, but I certainly don't need it...

He's definitely Northern, almost to the point of his buildings having a bit of unintentional magical realism when you're in one. It's the transition to the outdoors for me, the whole almost frameless aspect of it. I assume the intent is a seamless transition (bringing the outdoors in blah blah) but it's so precise it almost feels screen like somehow. It's just somehow more present and stronger with that sculptural light of the Med, it accentuates the razor sharpness of it. I think we're always a bit wary of that precision in N. Europe, but it's where he shines for me and, subsequently, where his imitators fall flat.

Yes, I see that.

Pawson and I are both from Yorkshire, and whilst he doesn't speak about it I really see it translated in his work, it's informed by a sense of space, I'm happiest on the moors, and there's really nothing there but sky and ground and I see that much of his work is really trying to make the environment in which we live and work an encompassing of an idea of space.

Oh gosh, aren't these colours fabulous?

Tone and texture turn heads in Paris at Fendi and Valentino shows

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/d6c8ec58-e05a-4da5-9f3f-bbf6a246d765?shareToken=4749d29884ac7e6b547e5b717b40c57c

Why does the stitching not take the dye @Floisme ?